oldiesman

Tom you're exaggerating. When one examines the totality of Wierwille's books there is some "word for word" plagiarism, but not near the amount hysterically misrepresented by some posters. I've seen a few sentences and paragraphs. That's "pretty much"? blaahhh A Peter Wade appearance!.... :o :) Love those oldie believers.

Danny, I am unaware of any VP statement claiming he learned everything from God only. You should get your facts straight bro. About Pat Robertson ... regarding his recent prediction, I hope to hell he's wrong. *********************** Well it's been wonderful debating you folks today, I bet it raised the view counts considerably. :D But as they say, all good things must come to an end ... I must leave you now and enjoy my day off tomorrow, and the weekend. Happy Weekend, one and all!

He said God said to him, "I'll teach you the Word as it hadn't been known since the first century, if you'll teach it to others" So by that statement you think Wierwille was saying that he didn't learn from other men, from God only? If you think that, you are mistaken. You need to add other facts in the mix which you are not doing.

I don't think there is any confusion about the pure definition of plagiarism. The debate exists when you apply it to VPW and add other facts in the mix. I know I know, let's not get confused with what he said at other times. It's besides the point.

Go back and read what WhiteDove wrote about this. It makes sense.

Potato, Your points would carry more weight if he didn't tell us "lots of the stuff I teach is not original". He told us lots of his stuff didn't come from his own study and he named who those were that he learned from. We know who he learned from. He told us who. Thieves don't usually tell people who they stole from. If you guys don't get what I'm saying by now then its deliberate (borrowed phrase from Raffy). :) Hi Danny, you are God's best.

There is no difference when it comes to supposedly having an "intent to lie and steal" which is what you believe of Wierwille. Maybe you consider them separate, but I consider his books as part of his teaching ministry, about which he plainly said, "lots of the stuff I teach is not original". He did not claim, "lots of the stuff I teach is not original, but all my books are original" He also had written in the preface of some of those books that he learned "from men of God scattered across the continent". What did he learn? What was in the books, obviously. I know nothing of the kind. I do know that once in the distant past, you made a distinction between "the baby and the bathwater" of the blue book. But I have no reason to believe that you think him anything other than a liar, thief, and predator. You've said so! What am I supposed to think?

Now now let's not get personal. You just don't seem to want to accept the fact that he acknowledged that lots of his stuff wasn't original. He was honest when he said that, but you don't accept his honesty. All he is to you is a liar and a thief. and worse.

Not beside the point. If his intent was to lie and steal, he wouldn't have made known to people that lots of his stuff wasn't original. Why did you change what you originally said Raffy?

IF he claimed all his stuff was original, you'd have a point there.

WhiteDove can answer for himself but I'll give my perception at the moment. There are different levels of honesty and integrity. There are grey areas. I think VP was careless in not giving proper written acknowledgement in his books. He could have done better if he wanted. Maybe he just didn't care. But, because he didn't, does that carelessness rise to the level of having an intent to lie and steal? Maybe but maybe not. I certainly don't believe so, for all the aforementioned reasons to the contrary. I could be wrong... I don't know what was in Wierwilles heart, his innermost being... but neither does anyone else except God.

Why is seeking God a good thing? Here's my two cents: God once said to man, "you started out as dirt, you will end up as dirt" As so goes mankind without the good graces of God.

Very well said, but, if every GS poster acted this way do you realize what it would do to the thread hits?

When I had questions for him in the past, yes, I called him. Works better than backbiting, and speaking "TO" a person one may have problems with is certainly biblical.

WhiteDove, Wow, well said. All of it. This is scary. I can't believe how much in agreement we are. :o I hope you didn't lose any sleep over your persistence in explaining your views, but I'm sure glad you did. :D

Right on MO!

To someone who's made available his phone number, he's probably expecting telephone calls from real people. You're probably nothing more to him than anonymous internet cyber characters until you pick up that phone. Be real. Call him up. You're not afraid are you?

I would go a step further and suggest that if anyone wants to engage him in a dialogue, call him on the telephone. He made that available so what's stopping some of you? Here's a chance for you to give JAL a piece of your mind, dang it! Get some guts for a change.

Dear Abby, I've never written to you before, but I really need your advice on what could be a crucial decision. I've suspected for some time now that my wife has been cheating on me. The usual signs... the phone rings but if I answer, the caller hangs up. My wife has been going out with the girls a lot recently although when I ask their names she always says, "Just some friends from work, you don't know them." I always stay awake to look out for her taxi coming home, but she always walks down the drive, although I can hear a car driving off, as if she has gotten out of the car round the corner. Why? Maybe she wasn't in a taxi? I once picked her cell phone up just to see what time it was and she went berserk and screamed that I should never touch her phone again and why was I checking up on her. Anyway, I have never broached the subject with my wife. I think deep down I just didn't want to know the truth, but last night she went out again and I decided to really check on her. I decided I was going to park my Harley Davidson next to the garage and then hide behind it so I could get a good view of the whole street when she comes home. It was at that moment, crouching behind my Harley, that I noticed that the rocker boxes on my engine seem to be leaking a little oil. Is this something I can fix myself or should I take it back to the dealer? Thanks, Biker Bob

I think so.

Never thought about how wierd it is. You are not emotionally scarred are you? :)

true enough but still, God has communicated his word through flawed human beings. I think it's a lot bigger than human comprehension.

My book says it was copyright in 1985. Gifts of the Spirit by B.G. Leonard was copyright-registered in 1966.

I don't believe that at all. But, living in this world exposed to evil, there's going to be sin, there's going to be sickness, there's going to be suffering and death. I certainly wouldn't say I understand everything about the way God allows all this to happen; but, I have seen demonstrated that his Word has been communicated through people who have sinned. In fact, we wouldn't have the word at all without men and women who have sinned. Don't know why that seems so difficult for some to accept.

Thanks for mentioning this LG. You and Linda have given reasonable facts supporting the conclusion that VP's ocular melanoma came from those original PFAL lights. Also heard what Evan said that VP said once that those strong lights cost him is eye.