oldiesman

I agree with your additions. It makes sense. I believe God wants all of us to follow him and his word with love as the motivation, because we choose to, not because we are being forced to or told to.

But I wouldn't be afraid of going back and checking them out to see what is happening. Would you?

Right. Twi doesn't have a website as Dr. Juedes, for example, devoted to condemning a particular religion and / or presenting a disparaging view of a group. If it had one, well, you could condemn it if you want.

My commitment is not where it should be, I guess. :D

Mo, I agree with your above statement , which is what VPW taught in PFAL and I think he handled it pretty well.

If they asked, and fixed a few things. Yes. First thing they have to fix, is get a fellowship near my house, not 2 hours away. :D

Bolshevik, were you one of the children of twi that had no choice but to be there? If so, then you have legitimate victim status! Kind of reminds me of my time in the church of my youth. I had no choice... my parents said I had to go, so I went. :D I guess I'm defending my perceptions and experience of twi. My own opinions. Everyone has them, and of course, you have a right to defend yours. But, I am sorry you had no "good times" in twi. I wish you did. I wish you were never involved and I'm sure Dr. Wierwille wished the same. I believe he didn't want folks to be there who didn't want to be.

To people who are against twi and want only to see one side of it, the bad side, Dr. Juedes provides medicine and goodness, I suppose. But for me, it is poison. I was involved for 19 years and do not accept only one side, only the negative comments and situations that Dr. Juedes promotes. Just forget everything good that happened and focus only on the dirt and sins of people. Is that godliness? Is that what God wants me to do? I doubt it; but where twi is concerned, I think this is what Dr. Juedes is all about.

Are you referring to the following verses?: 1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. I thought these were handled pretty well in PFAL. If you have a better explanation of them, I'll be happy to consider.

Apples and oranges. TWI has a website that supports their own belief and product; they are not condemning anyone else. In contrast, where twi is concerned, Dr. Juedes communicates only negative and poisonous information. Big difference. He's on a mission. It's one thing to have a website to promote your own belief and product, and its entirely another to condemn another ministry, providing only one side of an argument.

I think single women would have gotten up the ladder anyway, if they wanted. You are free to speculate and assume, but I haven't seen proof that any woman was ordained specifically because she slept with Wierwille or anyone else. In fact I think the accusation is an insult to the spiritual commitments and abilities of some of the ordained women. By this accusation, I think you have degraded these women. Single women were treated as equals in twi. And look who's now running the whole shebang?... TWI as a ministry was degrading to women? I don't believe it, and wouldn't have been involved with it for 19 years if I saw evidence of ministry bias against women.

To the contrary, this is one reason why I believe, in fact, that twi as a ministry didn't degrade women. I was in submission to them on the spiritual level. Women were elevated into spiritual positions and responsibilities. That's not degrading...that's elevating.

Mo , I followed along and agree with everything you wrote, except the above. The text in Ephesians reads that as the church is subject unto Christ, so the wive is to subject to her own husband in everything. It doesn't say "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing, except when they choose not to." I have done this ooodles of times and especially when having female coordinators !

Getting back to this original question and statement is telling. Look at what Hooner did, she blamed twi because some ex way members ridiculed her for supporting women's rights. ex way members's statements have nothing to do with twi but twi gets the blame anyway.

Of course not. I do however believe that it's very possible that many of the legitimate abuses endured by wives didn't come from any teachings or motivations from twi or its leaders. But no matter, the purveyors of victim entitlement want to continue to blame twi and its male leaders for every cruel and evil act of a husband against a wife, while in twi. But I think each situation must be examined separately to determine whether twi is really at fault. As it happens, experiences in my own family were exactly the opposite of what some present here. My mother was physically abused by my father, years before twi. But while in twi, none of this ever happened. Far from it ... my mother got our entire family very involved in twi in the early 1970's.

Then how do you explain Ephesians? Eph 5:22 ¶ Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

I write generally; yes there are exceptions.What I believe the exceptions are is as I've quoted in the past:

Still, in Genesis 3:16, God said to the woman "he shall have rule over thee". TWI was being biblical in teaching that the husband is to rule (with love) over the wife. Like it or not, that's what it was , a biblical ministry. If you stayed around for years, you consented to it. Your participation acknowledged your own belief in it.

From what I've observed, those who've been a part of twi and who think the best of Dr. Juedes, also seem to think the worst about twi. Is that mere coincidence? "by their fruits ye shall know them" Make no mistake, Dr. Juedes is a one-track crusader against twi desiring to poison people against it. In everything else in his life, he may be quite reasonable.

I agree.

I don't know, Evan. I think where twi is concerned, Rev. Juedes is exactly a one-track crusader and desires folks thinking evil and poison about twi. He does not allow varying opinions about twi on his website. He will gladly, share and post about every evil work committed in twi but doesn't allow "positive" and "godly" experiences and happenings of those of us who may want to share them. What does that tell you? He may well display fruit of the spirit and his ministry may be very godly; can't say because I don't know the guy. But where twi is concerned, from everything I've seen and heard I think he's a one-track crusader.

Congratulations Raffy.

"The Word of God is the will of God" Perhaps the most powerful of VP's quotes.

What I really mean is, it's a free will thing. If one freely consented to their situation back then, I think it's pretty hard to complain about it now and make much sense.

Depends on the individuals making the decision. I knew folks who just went to twig for many years, subject to no one. I was one of them.