oldiesman

VP Wierwille taught me the accurate scriptures about receiving the spirit and getting born again thru the hearing of faith, not the works of the law. Galatians were bewitched because they went back to the law; thought they weren't justified by Christ's sacrifice but had to go back to the law to work for it. This happens today. Some get bewitched into thinking that faith isn't good enough, so they proceed to be justified by all manner of works. The scripture is clear; it concludes that ALL have sinned, none of us are any better than another. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Yes you are. Renew your mind.

You asked whether these other groups were perversions of Christianity and I believe that's false. I think they are part of what makes up the Body of Christ today. Just as twi is part of the Body with their own beliefs and doctrines, so are these.

I'd be interested to know what Dr. Juedes believes the correct interpretation of these verses are:

(1) Then salvation would be of works; and (2) Victor Paul Wierwille was in fellowship with God for more than a passing moment. (one wouldn't know it by some posters' opinions but he did manage to do some good works too, over the years.)

You made my day, ex 10. Love and kisses! You have invigorated me and postage encouragement for the next 10 years. thank you thank you thank you

Right on!

Obviously it is possible. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maybe some of us would do the same thing, in Wierwille's shoes. Too much power and authority ruins some people. Goes to their head. Solomon was like that too.

What do you mean twi was "supposed" to be a Christian ministry? It is and always was. No matter how hard you try to cast off VP, twi and the offshoots from the body of Christ, you can't do it. God doesn't forsake his kids. In some areas yes, in some no. I can't justify these things, all I can do is believe the scripture when it says "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Victor Paul Wierwille believed that and when he was teaching the word and in fellowship with God, his actions followed accordingly.

He taught that Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, our returning Lord and Saviour. For over 40 years! Never wavered from that. He remained faithful to these truths. If Jim Jones believed in Jesus Christ, the bible says he SHALL BE SAVED. Same for Adolph Hitler. Now, they may be scubbing toilets for 20,000 years, but that's beside the point. :)

I have to assume that some of these stories are correct. Even though never personally witnessed by me OR ANY HUMAN I HAVE EVER PERSONALLY SPOKEN WITH, I still have to assume that some of these stories are true. These are powerful, internet cyber characters. What I don't deem as true are Rascal's silly *men of the flesh* theory that VP wasn't born again because of his sins. Absolutely ridiculous! Preposterous! I have never heard of such nonsense except from Sunesis. But Rascal has such spiritual understanding, perhaps I'm missing something.

A man that teaches for over 40 years that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God, the Messiah, and he doesn't even really believe it himself. Preposterous!

What do you mean by "good"? I think Dr. Wierwille was a born again Christian.

Actually this happens every day in many venues. Let's be honest. Here's one simple example: Do you drive? Then you are positive about driving and simply can't be bothered about the negatives. When was the last time you heard of someone quitting driving, because of sorrow over all the driving deaths? OK, we'll play it your way. We are, in your own words, the Body of Christ that will be perfected. I think TWI and the offshoots are entitled to the same standing, respect and freedom of choice.

Spiritually, The Body of Christ has no warts or decay. Another one of those biggies learned in PFAL: ". . . As HE is, so are we in this world . . ." (I John 3: 2-3) :)

Outfield, I agree. That was a biggie for me too.

I think Jesus would want us to hold fast to the good. TWI is no longer VPW's church and this verse is obviously talking about present day associations. VP founded twi, but he's been dead for 22 years. Under that same logic, a participant of the Roman Catholic church must disassociate himself because of bad popes. CLICK ME FOR INFORMATION ABOUT BAD POPES TWI and the offshoots are carrying on with a large part of PFAL and other teachings of VP. I don't see a problem with that... I see those groups as part of the body of Christ, and this is still the U.S. of America with freedom of religion as one of our beloved tenets.

My cyber character will hug anyone; it doesn't mind. :P

She didn't deserve it; Dr. Wierwille was still wrong regardless. However an old Chinese proverb comes into play here: FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU; FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME or, "Anyone who falls for the same deceit twice must accept responsibility for his own gullibility; thus, one should be more watchful the second time around." Originally a child's saying." From the "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).

Thanks T-Bone. Yes, I have changed my position from years ago, and all without one-on-one, human contact! Anonymous internet cyber characters are powerful! :D

I was with Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille for a month, back in June of 1984 on a 6,000 mile motorcycle trip. This was about a year before his death. At that time, he had his glass eye; he seemed calm and serene, not having such evil power described here. Perhaps he was at a point in his life, closing in on his death, when he repented and asked God for forgiveness. I don't know. All I know is, this is the Victor Paul Wierwille I experienced and remember. I'm sorry some folks experienced a disgusting part of him.

That makes sense.

Is it possible he really thought that he could heal you from your childhood troubles? Is it possible he was making a sincere gesture? I think it is. Maybe I'm wrong.

I didn't say you did anything wrong. But I think you chose him because you loved him, and were willing to overlook his disgusting side. Love covers a multitude of sins.