oldiesman

The answer to that is pretty obvious. It can't apply to every human being who ever lived. Doesn't make sense.

I trow not, bliss. If Mrs. Hitler thought her child's days were fashioned by God, and God was looking over him in the womb as a human being, do you think she was correct? I don't know that Psalms applies to everyone. What about Jeffrey Dahmer, was he fearfully and wonderfully made in the womb by God? Osama Bin Ladin? Mao Zedong? Kinda makes one think, doesn't it?

Yes I think so. Just wanted to point out that his "prediction" from 1976 had a qualifier along with it, and he could have been correct with that particular "prediction" or "prophesy". BTW, I don't consider VP to have ever been a prophet. I always considered him to be a teacher. He called himself "The Teacher".

Yes, little ol' twi and wows. You are entitled to your opinion though. I didn't say we WOWs were the cause of the freedom; I said I believed we made a difference at that time. Spiritually, this isn't all that far fetched, except perhaps to the carnal mind. God blesses nations that follow and acknowledge him, and we were worshipping Him and believing Him for continued blessings.

If you isolated yourself, that was your choice; but these issues were predominantly up to the individual. or, the mindset of the individual making the decision.

sorry Rottiegirl but had to show you this, have you seen it?: Rottie nurses kitty

Interesting thought: those scriptures refer to Jesus and David. Would you proclaim the same verses for Adolph Hitler?

I was encouraged by VP, personally, that after the WOW program to go back to my area in the Bronx and teach them what I learned. I didn't follow his advice, instead I thought I knew better, went in the Corps, and screwed up. Regarding "visiting earthly family" , I would readily admit that having one's entire family in twi which I did made things a whole lot easier.

That one wasn't a failed prophecy because the antidote was contingent upon the Word getting over the USA, which at the time was deemed by twi to happen or at least very close to happening. I believe we did make a difference there spiritually which caused physical blessings. I was WOW that year and remember one of the foundational scriptures for that year: Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Just like most everything in twi, it was up to the individual to decide for themselves what possessions they wanted and not wanted. This of course didn't always apply to the Corps or WOW which were special training programs. Seeing earthly family... was an individual decision. Same with movies. I can remember some very fond memories of all my WOW family enjoying "The Empire Strikes Back" first time at the movies, back in 1979.

But it doesn't mean there were no trimester demarcations, and I have provided written proof of same. I'll be happy to email a copy of the magazine to anyone who wants one.

But you asserted there were no trimester demarcations, and I offered written proof that there was. A magazine like that can't be published without careful consideration, assimilation, examination, back and forth discussion of and with prominent TWI believers. If something contradicted twi doctrine, it wouldn't have been published. This isn't Dave Craley going off on his own trip and teaching his own doctrine. If you saw the magazine you'd see what I mean. If you like, I would be happy to email a pdf to you.

Sky4it, are you referring to doctrine, or sins? If you will, please explain what doctrine (or sins) are similar. On the sin level I often compare Wierwille with Solomon, but even that seems unfair to Wierwille, since Solomon did much worse evil. It'd be interesting to know what if any similarities of Wierwille with Calvin.

Yes I can believe that his decisions both good and bad were deliberate. But that doesn't mean he wasn't enticed and / or deceived along the way, just like us. As far as his Godly responsibilities are concerned, he taught the Word for over 40 years, and didn't waiver from a number of sensational truths.

I think he fell into the same trap as Solomon who having nobody to answer to, hundreds of wives, thinking all that sex was good, he got obsessed with it for a time. He thought it was all pure and good. Interestingly though, Wierwille didn't go as far as Solomon did to worship other gods.

Out There, I agree with you; but some posters are simply focused, fixated on Dr. Wierwille's sins. It's an obsession. I think these are otherwise reasonable people. I sometimes think some of them hate Wierwille so much more than the devil himself. The relentless hate and piling on is incredible. It is staggering to watch sometimes. Golly, I thank God I'm not of that mindset.

I wrote that but wasn't entirely accurate with those statements. The piece by Dave Craley explains it a lot better.

I trow not, Waysider. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to go back and read my posts on this thread. Somewhere in there you will find documented proof of some trimester demarcations. :) What a great thread this is. Seemed to gain even more steam after I thought it had run its course. Thanks folks. :P

That one doesn't make any sense in actual life experience. It assumes that the fetus can be alive after a miscarriage which is just ridiculous. A fetus that is miscarried usually ends up dead. ( i suppose there may be very occasional exceptions.) The mischief is talking about the mother, if she gets hurt then "an eye for an eye". Otherwise there is only a fine for a dead fetus. The fetus is not thought of as the same value as the mother. This is confirmed in Jewish theology, otherwise they'd ban abortion because if the fetus were life, like the mother, it would be murder and they'd have to ban it.

He certainly dreamt about embryos from Exodus and concluded that the fetus wasn't a human being and shouldn't be given the same value as the mother. Those are the simple facts.

I don't think it has to say it is permitted for it to be permitted. In other words, everything is permitted unless it is prohibited. On the other hand, if it says it is prohibited, it definitely is not permitted. That is the very definition of what the law is. (don't do this, don't do that, etc.)

Abigail, Let me step back from my previous comment for a moment. Where in Jewish law does it state that abortion is prohibited unless the life of the mother is at stake?

I don't know. Doesn't make sense. If a woman were to go to her Rabbi and ask his blessing and support to have an abortion, the Rabbi would say "sorry, nope, you are doing wrong if you get an abortion. God wants you to have the child regardless and be a mother." Is that what the Rabbi would say? Somehow I don't think so.

Eagle, search around the net and you'll find many Rabbi's and Jewish teaching that agree with twi teaching on this point; i.e., until the fetus can live outside the womb, on its own, it is not thought of as a living soul or human being. That's probably why Rabbi's do not ban abortions -- (unless or until the fetus is viable, around third trimester). But that piece by Dave Craley was excellent too; teaching that the fetus is "the potential" to life and not life itself.