oldiesman

AnotherDan, Thanks for sharing. You've so eloquently summed up feelings of mine about VP as well.

Sounds fair to me. :)

Right on Larry! :) As I recall the PFAL teaching it was "God is The Word", "Jesus is the Word in THE FLESH", "the bible is the Word in Writing". So Jesus Christ not being here in the flesh, the Word takes the place of the absent Christ. Simple really. This wasn't a problem or misunderstood when Wierwille taught it. If it was, there would have been clarification. Only the past few years is this so-called kakamayemee "absent Christ" doctrine being spewed as if it were historical fact by some GS posters. Whether PFAL was right or wrong, if they're going to teach PFAL, they should at least teach it accurately.

Abigail, if you're asking me these questions, then I would refer you to my previous answer about seeking the good in Wierwille, which you said you bought. I don't answer these speculative questions that can have no real answers and only seem to result in strife and debate.

Well I suppose it's moot since the feds ban partial birth abortion now. It's now a matter of adhering to the law of the land. I think this is a good thing. This is expected to trickle down to all the state legislatures, in time: PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION ACT OF 2003

I honestly don't see much profit in dwelling on your characterization of a "legacy of abuse that also lives on". I don't know that it is fair to say that the current state of affairs at twi is abusive, do you? Much like a Catholic parishoner may not find profit in dwelling on pedophile priests, life goes on. The church goes on. If something at present is destructive and abusive, the Word says to reprove and rebuke, and make correction. If there is current abuse taking place in twi or the offshoots then it is incumbent to root it out and make correction. Do you know of any adultries / rapes currently taking place in twi or the offshoots? I don't know of any. I think there is some current twi doctrine that is worth questioning; but I believe that can be accomplished in love and respect, not hatred and disrespect.

I think VP's legacy is the continued teaching and preaching of the accuracy of the Word of God. I believe the important thing is that the Word continues to be taught and believed... and I think that is what he would have wanted most. I see nothing wrong with that and much right about it. And, I think that's the only profitable thing that's left. Hatred is destructive and doesn't help.

Mixed emotions. I think Rascal has love and mercy but I can't see continued hatred of Victor Paul Wierwille as being a good thing, even though folks did get hurt. Hate is a real strong blinding emotion and as you know, can come from betrayal. I think Rascal feels betrayed and devastated by the sins of VP, and manifests continued hate through that emotion. I believe the feelings are real and genuine. However, where does it say that it is a godly Christian thing to engage in continued hatred caused by betrayal? You know, I believe it can even be an obsession, this continued hate of VP. It's like a dead cockroach on the linoleum. For crying out loud, the cockroach is dead and doesn't have to bother you anymore. But over and over every day, day in and day out, you smash the cockroach. You look at it, morning, noon, and night, and offer smashes every chance you get. You keep on smashing and pulverizing, smashing it into the linoleum. Unrelentingly. Crushed and smashed, morning, noon and night, every day, on and on. Continued hatred of VP is like that, like smashing a dead cockroach in linoleum.

That's the way it mostly was for me too socks. I tripped out the times it wasn't. :)

I believe that was the context in which it was presented and I tried to understand it. I could be wrong. But I think it's better to think that way then think VP was some sort of a porn pusher.

I think that'd be up to the individual Raffy.

I wouldn't have shown that to the 13 year old, and don't believe Dr. Wierwille would have either. The parents should share some blame for that one too. I think these things were shown for purposes of outreach. We know a major emphasis in twi was outreach. May sound strange but, not being shocked by what is going on in the world may help when one comes across one of these people and witnesses to them. Instead of acting like Mr. or Mrs. goooodie two shoes but trying to relate and understand where they're at maybe would help motivate them to get out of what they are in.

One didn't have to watch it, they could have walked out like I saw the two women did.

Yes I do believe his motives were purely for teaching purposes. He didn't promote beastiality. Larry, I don't remember photos but do remember videos. :)

Larry I revised my post. Man you are quick! :lol:

Jonny, I saw the beastiality clip at a CFS camp in 1973. Dr. Wierwille ran it in NY. No big deal, although I do remember a couple of women walking out. And that's another thing, if folks thought it was sooooooooooo bad, they could have walked right out. Wierwille wouldn't have minded. The purpose of this short video (and I mean SHORT) as explained by Wierwille was to get folks to see stuff they wouldn't normally see, so they wouldn't be shocked by what is going on in the world. The idea that VP wanted to engage in or wanted us to engage or relish in bestiality and pornography is kakamaymee nonsense.

Thanks for sharing that Johniam. Kind of adds some light on the twi- isolationism propaganda, doesn't it? Imagine, glassy-eyed neon eyed cult followers under mind control bondage for a whole year being allowed visits from their parents!

Livininit, thanks for sharing that. No matter how hard some posters try to revoke his membership from the body of Christ, facts are facts and he did accomplish much good in his life too. God remembers our good work in the Lord, though people may forget and belittle.

I trow not. :)

Well nobody asked my opinion but, for those who think Dr. Wierwille was a counterfeit, "false teacher" may be the most accurate. I think that's what I would use if I were inclined to think that way. :)

Well you surmise wrong. I invited you to discuss this point privately with me in the past; i.e., if you have any knowledge or facts that I was treated better than anyone else because of my family members involvement ... then I would concede the point with you. But you have no specific knowledge or facts, just destructive conjecture where that's concerned. I just want to reiterate that I do believe you when you talk about yourself and your own experiences. I respect that. However I tend to doubt you when you think you speak for everyone else's experience...

Because I fellowshipped with people just like you for 19 years, who did not necessarily have their entire family involved in twi; and while I believe you for what YOU went through, I do not believe your every remark when you think you speak for everyone else. You don't speak for everyone else. Why can't you get that? In my first year of WOW, my sister's unbelieving family visited us, out on the field. It was her decision. She wasn't isolated. That's just one example of why you don't speak for everyone else...

There's another possible choice: © his believing wasn't big enough to receive miraculously healing.

I agree with the idea that "if" they had soul life in the womb, it'd be no different than anyone else. I just question that those verses bliss used could be used to prove that there is soul life in the womb in all cases, especially the first trimester. I do think they could have been talking about themselves primarily and not necessarily about everyone else, especially the prophesy about Jesus (or was that John the Baptist?). Way back when, I think they did believe in evil ungodly blood lines. Joshua at Jericho for example. Destroyed everyone, man woman child, even animals. If memory serves, some lines were contaminated by the Nephilim too. But that may be off track to our discussion here.