oldiesman

You are funny Bumpy. Have a nice evening. :)

I still believe it, but I'm not stressing anyone else's beliefs about it or condemning or disparaging anyone if they don't do it. In contrast, an assertion has been made of a "personal relationship and communing with Jesus" and that PFAL and twi was wrong and/or deficient with this part of Christianity. I think that assertion should be thoroughly explained because I think its a bum rap otherwise.

I don't even know why SIT should be mentioned here. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Assuming you don't want to speak in tongues, no problem. It is a spiritual manifestion but if some feel its not a language or not worth doing, then that's their belief. I believe different, but folks are entitled to believe what they will. But an assertion has been made of a "personal relationship and communing with Jesus" and that twi was wrong and/or deficient with this part of Christianity. I'd like to explore that and see if the assertion is true, and can be explained because at this point its all gobbledygook to me. I think you should try to explain it in detail from the scripture, otherwise you shouldn't expect folks who respect the scriptures to follow or believe what you say, and you certainly shouldn't condemn or disparage twi and others for not doing something you can't really explain.

Golly, all the knowledge of his importance to modern Christianity I can read from the bible, it's revelation already given. As far as wanting Jesus to be a part of my personal walk, if it's available it sounds great but you still haven't explained what exactly you're talking about. I don't get "the personal walk with Jesus" thingy. It should be explainable, no? Does Jesus , the man Christ Jesus talk to you? What does he say?

Language experts told you that speaking in tongues was gobbledygook but Jesus didn't! Interesting. :)

Wow. So then prayer and the giving of thanks to God in the name of Jesus Christ doesn't work? Folks must pray to Jesus first who will then convey the message to God? You know, I can't believe former twi folks actually believe this.

So now your disparaging speaking in tongues too? Did Jesus tell you it was gobbledygook?

I'm beginning to think that this "personal communing and relationship with Jesus" thing may be nothing more than spiritual gobbledygook. If you can't at least explain it, or explain how that would differ from a relationship or prayer to God, then you shouldn't condemn or disparage folks who might not participate in it.

What difference does it make? I like to know that when I pray, I know who I'm praying to. I like to know that if I receive communication in return, who exactly it is who is communicating with me.

In other words, the benefits transcend things like money.

Mr. Hammeroni, I understand what you mean but you must remember that many of the benefits of having faith are in the spiritual realm, that may not necessarily have physical manifestations like money.

Wordwolf I think you could be misrepresenting twi position here. I remember "spoudazo" from the collateral reading "Study be Diligent", so yes, that was taught in twi as well. I think the key of this verse is "rightly dividing the Word of truth"; when we do that we have the true word and in that work, are approved of God. God approves of that work, that effort. Rightly dividing the word of truth is an important thing for us to do, so important that it meets with God's approval of us.

Thanks Johniam. I think that's a legitimate question but actually that wasn't what I was thinking; what I thought was, "how do you know you're not communing with the Holy Spirit, or God; instead of Jesus?? How do you distinguish between them when communing? Is there a difference in how or what they each communicate? Another question; isn't God big enough to reveal his heart to you Himself? Since we now have holy spirit... why would God require Jesus to explain his Father's heart to you when the Father Himself can explain it directly to you via the Holy Spirit?

How?

Well at least you admit that it was God's holy spirit and not a counterfeit.

Not sure if I can agree with that. We know the teachings were not original, but the actual fellowship ministry and work were. Far as I can tell, B.G. Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger, et al. didn't run or coordinate anything that twi took from or copied.

Actually according to PFAL, VP taught that the Word of God he was speaking of was the Word as it originally came when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The statistic I offered is my opinion. But my mind is open to hearing new views and Waysider, you haven't answered my previous question about Jesus and folks' possible relationship with him that wasn't taught in TWI? Since you assert this idea, I think it's incumbent upon you to explain what you mean so folks like me can learn where twi was possibly wrong or deficient.

Bondage, what bondage? Somewhere safer? The whole world is unsafe. But yes I think it was possible to be learned elsewhere. It didn't happen that way for me, but I think it was possible if twi wasn't around years ago. Today it is possible because of the offshoots, and twi itself (since they say they've changed ).

"understanding the personal relationship", what does that mean? what does that one mean?

So what? The PFAL class didn't teach all things that pertain to life and godliness, all possible opportunities where one may be approved and well pleasing unto God. It did however teach that God approves us when we study and rightly divide the Word.

It was either Graham or Roberts; VP said he didn't originate it, and I didn't say VP originated it. Who cares anyway? But too bad about your disparagement of the bible.. "God is severely limited to a bunch of words." I'm glad the bible means more to me than that. Golly, just look at Jesus who had a much greater approach to the Word of God than that. Show me anything that even hints Jesus had that approach. "God is limited to a bunch of words" baaaaa. Here's one verse from 2 Peter that elaborates the greatness of the Word: 2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Of course folks can receive word of knowledge too but 99% of the knowledge people would ever need is in the Word of God.

That's a great statement, and it would be nice for you to share it without having to repeatedly disparage VP and TWI, as your writings often do. Perhaps you can elaborate about some of the workings and attributes of this relationship since Sunesis seems to think this is way over my head.

Waysider, what is it about Jesus and folks' possible relationship with him that wasn't taught in TWI? Every now and then somebody mentions this, but I don't see what it actually consists of and what they are actually talking about.

Sorry, I think some of your views are hateful nonsense that warrant a strong response. If you can't take your views being strongly challenged, then I suggest you do something else. BTW, can you offer some concrete information about the immense greatness of Jesus Christ that was NOT taught in TWI? If TWI missed something then, I'm always open to learn more.

I have to disagree with that one because being loved by God and having his approval can be two separate things... God is love, but doesn't approve everything we do. I do still see study and rightly-dividing the Word of truth as winning God's approval. Its something we can do to be approved of God. And, knowing as we do it that God approves of that activity. Says it right there in the book.