oldiesman

But you still had a choice to leave if you wanted. You obviously didn't see the corps as some others did... then at that point one still could have left the program and been Joe Believer at twig. Or, just go through the program if you still loved the ministry and decide later what you wanted to do with your life. Nobody held a gun to your head. If you decided to leave right then, it would have taken some brutal honesty to go to Craig and say "you know, when I signed up there was no intention to work for the ministry for the rest of my life, my intention was [fill in the blank]. But now you're telling me something different." I agree with the description of the Lifetime of Christian Service being how one lives and in what job one desires. Some folks saw it that way, some didn't. But the bottom line is we had free will to choose what we desired to do, persuasive people notwithstanding.

Please go ahead and alert the moderators. I'd really like to know whether they feel quoting a partial post from someone is dishonest as you suggest. I'll abide by whatever ruling they decide (if any).

What a disparaging thing to say about brothers in Christ. Heefner, Doop, Fugit et al. WERE serving God during their participation in twi.

Rascal, As far as I know, there is no forum rule prohibiting the quoting of postings or partial postings from one thread to the other if it relates in some way to a post. When one of your posts blames twi for something or a variety of things, quoting your other post "I don't blame twi for anything" is fair game and speaks for itself. If you want to play the victim card and call it "stalking", go ahead, but perhaps you should check with Paw first before making that assumption.

Skyrider, So then your point is, because Dr. Wierwille didn't include the specific details that were in Mrs. Wierwille's book with respect to the India trip, he allegedly was a narcissist?

No I don't view it that way. I view it as all part of the program to toughen you guys up. Instead of looking at it like a weakling getting victimized, take it as a challenge to do bigger and better things. That was the attitude of mine in the corps despite all the wacky stuff we did there too.

:o :D

Cman, Please feel free to PM me anytime to discuss those issues.

Good points Garth, thanks.

I want one.

no no no no no no no no Golly that was easy.

I don't think letting someone go is mind control or part of a mind control process; its just part of life. If I'm at work and someone is let go because of bad performance, bad morale, bad breath, etc. or whatever, is the employer using mind control techniques on the others? I don't think so. When you warn someone "if you do this, this will happen", is that mind control? I don't think so. Even someone who has done something out of fear motivation still has the will to choose other avenues at any time. Victim mentality wants us to think otherwise.

So then you don't blame twi for employing brainwashing or extreme manipulation as a reason for your continued attendance?

George, it appears the answer to your question is above, i.e., I think Rascal blames twi for employing brainwashing or extreme manipulation as a reason for her continued attendance.

If mind control were being employed, why resort to set a precedent or ever throw anyone out? They'd just use physical and psychological techniques to supplant the individual's freedom of will in favor of their own. At that point, nobody would want or need to leave or be physically removed, for they'd already be subjugated to the groups mind control and brainwashing techniques and one's will completely subjugated ... and they'd be made to love it!

If twi's alleged "mind control" techniques were so effective why would they ever need to throw anyone out or mark and avoid anyone?

Abigail, That's why I use the word "alleged" now. I didn't see these evils committed in twi or elsewhere so use of that word is right for me. I didn't start this thread so perhaps you should ask Rascal what the point is? As I see it, it was started to presumably show that nobody trumps twi in the evil department. I'm merely pointing out that if we were to do some digging, we'd find out fast that evil allegedly flourishes in all the world and in many other religious groups. As far as whether we should condone it, hello, of course not. If modern day twi is alleged to be engaging in rape, adultery, alcoholism, murder, suicide, drugging, destruction and the like, of course call the police, make it known. But that's beside the point of this thread.

Well it sure sounds like you alleged it, perhaps I'm missing something.. Here's the quote: "I`m just saying that there isn`t ANYBODY who can out do twi as far as damaging doctrine...or doctrine that allows evil and abuse to flourish. " Golly , that sounds to me like you just said twi was the worse group and worse evil of all time. i.e. "there isn't ANYBODY who can out do twi as far as damaging doctrine or doctrine that allows evil and abuse to flourish ..." "I don't think ANYBODY can dwarf twi in the evil department..." So what's the difference and how did I mis-read your position?

Ham, The link "Priests of Darkness" does contain allegations of abuse from churches other than the RC. Here's an excerpt: For me, the fact that twi allegedly engaged in this stuff in the past is at least equal to all of this other evil stuff. So where's the proof they are still allegedly engaging in rape, drugs, adultery, alcoholism, etc. This is comparing apples with apples, so to say twi is the worse evil just doesn't line up with facts we have available to us when one considers the allegations about other groups as well.

Not at all. Evil in ANY group is not ok. But you are alleging that twi evil was the worse evil of all time, and I'm giving facts that dispute your allegation. But because your mindset is such that twi was the worse group of all time that that's that, you're just immune to facts to the contrary...