oldiesman

One really simple way of shedding the group and the waybrain is to do without it for a month! Remember what VPW said in PFAL... take a month and shed the world and exclusively delve into the PFAL materials? So try the reverse and see what happens.. Surprise surprise.

Prayers

Catholics believe in a concept called "the community of saints." One example of this in operation is prayers for souls in purgatory for the purpose of releasing them -- it's said that God releases souls from purgatory into heaven this way. Don't ask me if or how this happens, have no idea and am still somewhat of a sceptic although I do pray St. Gertrude's prayer anyway. Regarding Jesus' return, does God respond to believers collectively praying for Christ's return? Scripture says we don't know the time, but does it say that believers have nothing whatever to do with helping make it happen? ("Thy Kingdom Come....") Then there are the 'preterists' who believe it already happened!

Hi Penworks, thx for that! I know of one other interpretation by TWI that was posted on GS once, from Free Spirit Magazine arguing against late-term abortion written by D. Craley that if the baby can live by itself outside the womb, it's presumed to have its own soul and shouldn't be aborted. I think the piece was from the 80s. But that quote from 1971 is amazing and should have settled it!

Thx Raf for your opinion. I'm leaning to the preterist view, i.e., Christ's completed work eventually established the 'body of Christ', the true modern-day Israel, inhabited by both Jew and Gentile believers in Christ-- that negates the old covenant of Israel under Judaism. The preterist belief also is shared by some very strict Catholics who have been described as 'partial-preterists' by the preterists themselves. Some trad Catholics still believe that Jews and Gentiles who haven't accepted Christ as Lord and Savior are destined to hell because of original sin. Am working on a short video of someone sharing that viewpoint that can be posted here in a few days. BTW here is Ward's "letter to his Dad" concerning Darby, if anyone is interested: A LETTER TO MY DAD CONCERNING JOHN NELSON DARBY ON ROMANS 11-Preterism, Darby, and eschatology and Preterist soteriology concerning the second coming of Christ in the clouds; Preterism and Preterist eschatology, Darby, the rapture and prophecy from a preterist perspective

What's your take on Ward's offering? Specifically, the completed works of Christ biblically ended the old covenant and the "land grant"?

All I'm after is the biblical...honest... have friends on both sides of the argument and am sincerely torn between the two. Raf can you offer your biblical wisdom?

Here is an offering from a friend who shares the Preterist view on this topic:

There's no real way for me to judge without experiencing her church for 6-12 months and see for myself, but she seems to believe in predestination i.e. everything is in place, ordained by God regardless of one's faith? i.e. Jesus paid for the sins of mankind therefore everyone is saved regardless? She believes in the Nicene Creed but is that alone enough to be saved? Again, need more exposure I think.

I've got mixed feelings about this topic. One the one hand, yes the old testament teaches that it's a perpetual land grant. On the other hand, numerous other Christians believe Jesus ended this prophecy with the church of the body which is comprised of Jew and Gentile, the modern-day Israel. Preterists do not believe in the land grant and I don't believe TWI did either. Anyway here's the land grant view: A Royal Land Grant (jerusalemprayerteam.org) All comments welcome.

This one was easy for me: "The Way reportedly teaches that members will suffer harm or death if they go into debt" Here's one from me: "The Way reportedly teaches that members will suffer harm or death if they do not tithe or abs." It can scare the living crap out of someone who takes this seriously.

I wonder if it goes way way back to Jesus. One of the biggest is "lead us not into temptation"?

Raf, your thoughts please. This might be idiom-related? When the scripture says "I come quickly" (Rev. 22:20) and "this generation shall not pass till all these things be done" (Matt. 24:34), what do you think is the most accurate interpretation out there? Thx.