oldiesman

Cman, a principle among many Christian groups is not to be yoked with unbelievers. So if one chooses to abide by those principles, one does. If one doesn't , one leaves the group. That is what freedom of religion is all about. That is not hate. If it is, can you explain these scriptures: 2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Yes... "Freely Avail" was in the twi definition for years. The door always was open to leave, and many chose that. I will never forget the day Craig dismissed the entire 6th corps on Sunday March 6, 1976. However almost everyone was able to choose to recommit themselves to the corps commitment if they so chose. (I wasn't, but that was another story). Many didn't, perhaps close to 100 people left on March 8 if memory serves. This is not slavery, this is freedom of religion. The freedom to choose one's religion. Thank God we haven't seen military totalitarianism in this country.

Apples and oranges. One is freedom of religion, the other is military dictatorship.

I do believe the Corps was intended to be a lifetime of Christian service along with a proviso that Christian service was defined the twi way, i.e, move the Word, move the word, preach the Word, preach the word etc. It was assumed that the corps volunteer was fully persuaded to this end. The understanding that the Word as was taught in twi was the best interpretation of the word of God on the planet and thus the corps volunteer was totally committed to this and was expected to perform a lifetime of Christian service affiliated with twi on those terms. However it is reasonable to assume that if the word changed over the years, i.e., doctrinal changes, advancing legalisms, burdensome rules and regulations, etc.; the volunteer was in a position to make a re-assessment which many have done.

I think the best information out there for the public is the film "Waco The Rules of Engagement".Essentially proves the FBI deliberately killed the compound inhabitants with CS Gas in retaliation for the Davidians' lawful use of weapons in self defense of their lives but resulting in 4 BATF agents getting killed.The whole thing could have been avoided with just a little government restraint. But no, the feds had to prove they were the big bully on the block. Clinton and Reno should be held responsible for these murders. The lies of the federal government are appalling and apparent in this film. If you haven't seen it yet, its worth the time for sure.

Count me in on that mindset too...

I could never use someone's sins or hypocrisy as a pretext to abandon the truth. God forbid. soundgood to me socks.

I think those early cassettes are excellent. But to each his own. :)

The persistent sinning of the teacher and choice to be a slave to serve sin doesn't negate the truth in the teachings.

Yeah I saw that... you mean stuff like this from our friendly Roman Catholic Church... Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 5), June 29, 1896 St. Bonaventure (+1260)

The hypocrisy of the preacher doesn't negate the truth in the preaching.

Focusing on vp's sins doesn't make the word any less true. The sins of the preacher doesn't negate the truth in the preaching.

Twinky, all are sinners. We all are swift to sin; are hypocrites. In other words we all stink. That's why I continue to believe the emphasis should be on the greatness of God and his son's accomplishments; Jesus' broken body and shed blood, his bodily resurrection from the dead, his ascension to the right hand of God. Far as I'm concerned, those who declare His righteousness and have faithfully preached this truth year after year and continue to do so are worthy of teaching these truths, despite their sins or "cult affiliations." The sins of the preacher does not negate the truths in the preaching. Continue reading in Romans and consider these verses: Rom 3:9 ¶ What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known: Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God ...

Here are a few beliefs that I've kept from PFAL: That God loves me despite my sins (the palms of God)... How to get born again (Romans 10:9, 10)... Sonship rights (righteousness, sanctification, justification, redemption, ministry of reconciliation)... That I am completely completely absolutely complete in Him... The believers Power of Attorney God wants me to hold fast that which is good... God wants me free from fear worry doubt anxiety and all matter of oppression... Jesus Christ is the Way Truth & Life, no man cometh unto the Father but by him... There is One Baptism by Holy Spirit; water baptism is not required for salvation... Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Messiah, the Redeemer, but not God the Son... The believer is As He Is... Jesus Kept the Passover... Whatever a Person Believes Is Directly Reflected In What He Confesses... Whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive... Jesus taught believing... God wants his children to believe all the benefits He has promised thru Christ... Simon of Cyrene and the Cross Christ Bore... Pauls Thorn in the Flesh... Ekklesia: Bride or Body? God is our Sufficiency... Church the Great Mystery Revealed, Christ in You, the hope of glory... The Bondage of the Sabbath Day.... Body, Soul, Spirit; formed made created... The Unqualified Commitment... What is true worship... Filled to Overflowing.... Speaking in tongues... Why Division... The Final Victory...

The word is true even in your churches, denominations or so-called "cult environment". Just because we were with twi or in the corps doesn't negate the truth of the word or make our experience a hoax or a con. I'd say the same for folks in or out of church. All depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the commitment or performing the action. It's pretty simple. Consider these: Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

I agree with you WhiteDove. Additionally from the spiritual partner perspective, I always assumed that the sponsoring was for the volunteer to receive training to later work for the ministry in some advanced capacity, not go through the entire training and then simply do your own thing and head off on your own orbit.

Skyrider, I never suggested that everything Dr. Wierwille taught was correct and God breathed. All I'm continuing to say is that his sins don't make the teachings wrong. His good works don't make the teachings right. The teachings stand or fall on their own, irrespective of the actions of the teacher. We all should rightly divide the word of truth for ourselves to get the true word.

Cman, The doctrine will stand or fall on its own irrespective of the temper tantrums of the teacher. I've been saying that over and over again yet some still don't get it. Honestly I don't like to argue about doctrine, its not fun and don't like to go there that much ... I would say if your beliefs have drastically changed since twi, then I respectfully disagree and best we can do is try to accentuate and have agreement in what we do agree on, if anything.

The explosive temper tantrums and vicious criticisms of the teacher doesn't negate the truth in the teachings. :)

Whether or not the dude was a con-man is besides the point. One persons life isn't defined by the good or bad works of another persons life. On the negative side, I guess that'd be guilt by association. Its a smear tactic I don't agree with.

Do you believe that laying up riches in this world by way of a decent career is more valuable (or has any value at all) in the afterlife, or will lay up rewards at the bema? What's more valuable, a decent career, or spiritual rewards? I think its possible to have both going at the same time, it would depend on the mindset and commitment of the person making the decision. But at the same time, I believe that thinking that corps volunteers were somehow wasting their time or getting ripped off of having a decent career is off the mark spiritually. God keeps the score.

Of course not, what I said was what I said. I think it makes more sense than the mind control excuse.

Right Ham, It's not as warped as you might think, it certainly wasn't warped thinking then. I'm sure you remember that all twi actions were virtually based on twi psychology i.e., "move the Word", Move the word" i.e., it was much bigger than simply developing a career. *Anybody* can simply develop a career, but we were storing up treasures and rewards in all of eternity to be rewarded at the bema which is much bigger than establishing a career in this vapor of life on earth. But hey, if eternal life is a hoax, if rewards are a hoax, if Christianity itself is a hoax, you probably have a decent point ... why go through all that corps nonsense when you could have had a decent career.

Jeff, Rascal wasn't referring to my spiritual family and I wanted to fill you in on what this was about. But if you don't have PM or want it, that's your option. Getting back to the topic, I'm of the opinion that we folks in twi had free will to choose our destiny. There are some exceptions: mentally retarded, children, and drug victims. But I think joining the corps was a bit more complicated, because by making that commitment, one voluntarily chose to follow the wishes, orders, spiritual counsel, whatever you call it, of someone else. This continued as long as the volunteer allowed themselves to be under that yoke, in my opinion.

Jeff, please activate your PM. I tried but can't get through.