oldiesman

Obviously not as Jesus himself appeared and condemned his actions. With Christians today, I think it depends on the heart and mindset of the person making the decision. If a heart and mindset is to obstruct and hate and want Christians destroyed, I think no. If a heart and mindset is to have a desire to help people learn God's will as Jesus did, I think yes. Col. is addressed to Christians who have a desire to put God first in their life so I don't see why it wouldn't apply to folks in twi... if that is their mindset to put God first, they are part of the body of Christ just like any other Christian would be...

Why can't the Lord and the ministry be served at the same time? In singleness of heart, fearing God: Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. It is possible to serve the Lord Christ in twi, or by selling donuts at Dunkin Donuts if that is where someone with the heart and mindset of Col 3:23,24 happens to work.

Wordwolf, I am not skilled in biblical research (never suggested that at any time) have no desire in that arena and further have no desire to debate doctrinal issues. However, I would like to render an opinion in this thread which I have done. From Merriam Webster's edition: Main Entry: 1eter·nal Pronunciation: \i-ˈtər-nəl\ Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity — more at aye Date: 14th century 1 a: having infinite duration : everlasting <eternal damnation> b: of or relating to eternity c: characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? — Mark 10:17(Revised Standard Version)> 2 a: continued without intermission : perpetual <an eternal flame> b: seemingly endless <eternal delays> 3archaic : infernal <some eternal villain…devised this slander — Shakespeare> 4: valid or existing at all times : timeless <eternal verities> The dictionary meaning of "eternal" is "having infinite duration" or "everlasting". Assuming that is true, there are only two choices in the coming age: life, or death. So what's the bottom line of Mark's research of the word "eternal" that is doesn't really mean "everlasting"? That God promises us eternal life but it may mean eternal death? I don't think that makes any sense. If there is an argument otherwise, Mark and anyone else is free to make it, but right now I don't buy the claim. It seems like a severely watered down version of the intent of God's promise.

With ultimately two big choices available, everlasting life or everlasting death, am very confident the promise of God is everlasting life in the age to come, not everlasting death in the age to come. "My child I will give you eternal life in the age to come then at the appropriate time throw you in the lake of fire and you can burn to a crisp" doesn't make sense...

I don't know that twi used this "as a magical shield to do any dam2 thing they wanted.." because they also taught about loss of rewards as a tangible loss for eternity as a consequence of living in very specific sin as warned in the scriptures. I agree with you that one cannot lose their salvation. It is quite simple. Being born again means being born "from above". That life born from above is eternal life, it cannot die. The new man is eternal.

I grew up in the Bronx so the Yanks were my team. The first time was just magnificent... the old facade which was torn down many years ago was my favorite. Dad had box seats right behind first base -- $4.00 each. The game that was perhaps the most memorable for me was in 1968, I think it was Mantle's last game in Yankee Stadium. He hit 2 homers against the Minnesota Twins but the Yanks lost the game, and I remember the newpaper caption the next day: "Minnesota 3, Mickey Mantle 2".

I pass the Stadium every day going to work but haven't been inside for years. What a great story! I hope they have a great time and perhaps they also can visit the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown sometime. Was there a few weeks ago and had a good time...

I believe my calling to the Body of Christ through twi was the genuine just as someone else involved in any other church group would consider their calling to the Body of Christ the genuine. Not of works, but by God's own purpose and grace. 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Vince Finnegan is a brother in Christ and I wish him well.

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He's taking on a big responsibility and I wish him well.

All that meant was that someone was "out of fellowship" and susceptible to evil happening to them; but sonship was not affected.

Its the same as when parents have children who may not get along with them. John is the son of Fred and Mary. John will always be the son of Fred and Mary even though John may not get along with Fred and Mary right now. Why? Because of seed. John will always be the son of Fred and Mary no matter where he is. Spiritually it is the same. Christians who are born again have the seed of Christ born within , that cannot be changed, will always be children of God no matter who they may fellowship with and what religion (or lack thereof) they may hold onto.

No.

would anyone like to attend a fellowship with me? let's say hi to the boogeymen and have a twinkie.

I think the "choice" discussion became an issue when someone suggested that this man is brainwashed and in bondage. The choice argument is not defending twi; it is respecting this man's choice as a citizen of this country to choose what religion he participates in even when one might not agree with the tenets of that religion. I think it's really good that you see your knee-jerk reaction. I don't think some folks are able or willing to do that. As a general observation: when some ex-twi folks get to the place that peoples' associations with twi don't bother them anymore and they can let people's associations and choices with twi go, and wish these folks the best and best wishes, then I think they will be at peace and can move on. I did that with the religion of my youth... I wish those folks the best too and spend zero time trying to dissuade their decision.

I am happy for him and wish him and twi best wishes ... this is America and folks have a right to choose their own religious group. Thank God for freedom of choice and freedom of religion.

I've been out for about 16 years now and while I'm happy about that, I have no axe to grind against the folks who are still there... I wish them well and hope they are happy. This is America, thank God for freedom of religion and if that is their chosen religion they have my best wishes.

Oakspear, do you still have a copy of the letter to Reynolds? I'd be interested to know what doctrinal problems you mentioned.

This cyanide analogy never worked for me. How do we know that there isn't a little poison in every religious group and denomination? There may be! Heck some people even think the entire bible is rubbish and poison. What is the answer? I believe the answer is to beware of everything one hears and reads. Test the knowledge, test the spirits. God gave mankind a brain with the ability to separate truth from error and that includes the ability to separate any harmful doctrine of twi away from the good. Take out the harmful leaven and get the new lump. The good does not have to be trashed along with the evil, in fact, I believe that interpretation is erroneous. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.

Look at the context of I Cor. 5, it is present tense. Present Tense of his time. Paul was correcting the actions of current happenings of his time, not talking about former events of 30 years ago.

Jeff, my reading and interpretation of the verse about the leaven basically means to turn oneself away (present tense) from a wicked person or people. (I Cor. 5). Has little or nothing to do with happenings of 20-30 years ago, rehashing and condemning sins which nobody can change today. If you believe your experience was with wicked people, you are entitled to that belief and opinion and free to share. My experiences seem to differ and I am just as entitled to my beliefs and opinions. With regards to being a tool of twi and using words like "we" as if everyone was a tool, it does seem like it was a disparaging comment about a whole lot of people many of them may not see it that way. That is why I thought it was offensive, not just for me but others as well. Remember this thread is not just a two-way conversation between you and Rascal; many folks are reading it. Didn't seem like Rascal was using "we" meaning just you and her alone; I thought her meaning was clear and I think the use of that inclusion opened the door to other varying opinions in this thread. But being a tool does not apply to me, WhiteDove (and I believe many many others) because of the recognition that our actions in twi were free will decisions that "we" take full responsibility for. Can't blame anyone else. WhiteDove may want to add more reasons why. What may have been in someone else's mind, their possible abuse of someones time and money, their mindset and their sins, is for God to judge. Doesn't make me a tool. God is the judge and searcher of hearts and motives and sins, that's His job.

I think it's an interesting concept but right now "closed threads" are not part of the format. By closed thread, I mean participants of like mind and thoughts and feelings. I thought about starting my own thread about how I and those who think like me were not tools of twi, but what's the point? You or anyone else with a varying opinion may come in and give your varying opinion and we'll have what we have here. I think its possible that closed threads may happen in the future; it may be worth a try if there's enough support for it, perhaps you may want to make a suggestion to Paw. But right now I think we'll just have to live with each other as best we can.

I honestly do still feel that way. When we (you and me :) ) freely availed ourselves to participate in "those good old days" we engaged in a process that helped us learn many wonderful things about life and people and hopefully, brought some folks enduring truths about God and Jesus and the Word of God. Our free will participation could be described as the opposite of being a tool... we decided to freely choose to walk in love and in fellowship with God and Christ and when we worked it was as the scriptures say heartily as to the Lord, and not unto men.

The "we" is offensive. Speak for yourself please.