oldiesman

I can go along with a statement "we all bought that I VPW am teaching the true word". I think I can say with reasonable certainty that we who hung around twi all once believed that VPW was teaching the true word. What I disagree with, again, is use of the word "ONLY". VPW said "ONLY I am teaching the truth." Balderdash, he never said that. It is unsubstantiated, inaccurate, and incredible. Nobody, not even VP says "I am the only source for truth". (except maybe the RC church ) They certainly teach through their sacraments is the only way to heaven )

I think that is kind of a strawman in itself. The claim was that God would work with VP; NOT that God would work with VP ONLY. If God worked with other folks (which I certainly think he did) Vp doesn't disprove that by his words or experience; all he is claiming is his own experience and not disproving anyone elses claims. I am weary of these claims that purport to show that vp and twi claimed they were the ONLY source of truth; I think that is a false premise designed to mislead and that never came from vp or twi. Besides, VP said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original" so how in the world can he think he's the ONLY source or means to understand the truth if lots of his stuff came from elsewhere? Just knowing that lots of the stuff came from other men disproves them being the ONLY source. Most accurate, ok. ONLY means, no. ...I think that is irrelevant as to whether his teachings are truth or of benefit to the student of biblical research. I think the teachings stand or fall on their own merit. King Solomon (who did much worse evil than VP ever DREAMED of) sins didn't negate the truths in Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon; obviously God wants truth communicated regardless of the sins of the communicator.

If what you say is right then I think we are all in deep dooo dooooooo. But I continue to believe that the sins of the moonwalking bear didn't negate the nourishment in the porridge.

That's too bad because I thought your past research on the blue book noting what's good with it and what's bad with it was quite a fair and respectable effort. BTW what happened to your Living Epistles website?

The sins of the teacher do not negate the truths in the teaching. Happy New Year!

I wish him well.

Does not look like Rosie.

I wish him well.

Haven't been to a twi fellowship since 1992. Honest criticism is one thing, nutty Kool Aid ideas with little evidence is another. It is like saying the Pope is a sorcerer, with no evidence. Carry on, I'll bow out.

Ok then carry on, let's see what you guys come up with.

I think the premise is about as dumb as saying that E.W. Kenyon was a Christian Spiritualist, which has been opined on this website before as well.

But even if someone decides to go with the twi program, they still may serve the Lord with gladness depending on their heart and commitment and mindset in that program. That was my original opinion and I'm sticking with it.

This is still the United States of America with freedom of religion. I wish them well.

The point is whether or not the federal government, or twi, or any other group, makes or has made a godly or ungodly decision, has no bearing on whether an individual serving and working and associating therein may serve the Lord with gladness working therein. They can. To portray otherwise is way too extreme, Kool Aid territory. Can a person serving the U.S. military and the country serve the Lord with gladness at the same time? I certainly do think so, even though they may be killing people. That was a good response, ChasUFarley, thanks.

I disagree. I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted. Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks). I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point. For example, how about folks who work for the federal government? How about someone who fellowships in twi, who also may work for the federal government? Does working for the federal government (with its track record of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word) disqualify someone, in or out of twi, from serving the Lord with gladness?

I didn't say that twi was serving the Lord thats actually beside my point. I said that those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians can serve the Lord and twi at the same time even while serving in twi. Even if one views twi like a corporation and not a ministry, the "good will doing service as to the Lord and not unto men" is performed by the participant who has that mindset, that is where the will of God can be demonstrated whether one serves in twi or in Dunkin Donuts. Perhaps some believe that it is impossible for those who serve in twi to serve the Lord, and that is ones own opinion. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion.

if one works for a corporation the corporation is "your master according to the flesh". Same deal with twi. one who works for twi has made them their master according to the flesh. Accordingly, those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians are doing the will of God, even in twi.

Eph 6:5 ¶ Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Folks with the commitment and mindset of the above can serve both at the same time. I think this is true of any corporation/group/ministry one may serve in, and not just twi, although I would include them also.

I agree.

That's fine and I agree with you, but why do you keep on assuming that someone who expects a promise of God to come to pass is being arrogant? It may be so, but that would depend on the heart and mindset of the individual person.

A new church building wouldn't be in the Word. VPW was talking about the promises of God.. that is the context in which "the law of believing" was taught and it is in that light that it must be understood, otherwise you will be mistaken.

That is totally inaccurate. The law of believing as taught by VPW: "In order to receive anything from God, the first thing one must know is "what is available". How does one know what is available? "Find out from the Word what is available". So, if something is available from the Word, it is within God's will. There was no power or intention to have anything other than what God wants his children to have, or to change God's will with the law of believing, since it was based on "what is available" from the bible.

You seem to be criticizing those who ask God for things when they pray, as if we are using God like a tool to get what we want. Gee what a miserable disgusting way to look at it. Jesus didn't look at it that way and said "when ye pray believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them". Jesus told us "ask and ye shall receive" and that this kind of prayer was available and not evil to ask God for things. TWI does not believe that Christians are the bride of Christ. Twi believes all Christians are the body of Christ. (Romans 12:5; I Cor. 12:12, 27; Eph 4:12).

To my knowledge twi never taught that God sends draught, they teach (or taught) that all evil comes from the adversary, the devil. They teach (or taught) that tithing is protection from the adversary, something that I disbelieved a long long time ago even while in twi, so I am with you on that one. The bible does teach that believing is a requirement to receive certain things. Are you disputing this? There are some folks who even believe that Jesus' sacrifice (which encompasses the generous grace and mercy of God) covers everyone ever born (i.e. everyone is saved) irrespective of what they believe.

A quick question: do you consider religious groups who do not adhere to all of the above a cult?