oldiesman

Haven't been to a twi fellowship since 1992. Honest criticism is one thing, nutty Kool Aid ideas with little evidence is another. It is like saying the Pope is a sorcerer, with no evidence. Carry on, I'll bow out.

Ok then carry on, let's see what you guys come up with.

I think the premise is about as dumb as saying that E.W. Kenyon was a Christian Spiritualist, which has been opined on this website before as well.

But even if someone decides to go with the twi program, they still may serve the Lord with gladness depending on their heart and commitment and mindset in that program. That was my original opinion and I'm sticking with it.

This is still the United States of America with freedom of religion. I wish them well.

The point is whether or not the federal government, or twi, or any other group, makes or has made a godly or ungodly decision, has no bearing on whether an individual serving and working and associating therein may serve the Lord with gladness working therein. They can. To portray otherwise is way too extreme, Kool Aid territory. Can a person serving the U.S. military and the country serve the Lord with gladness at the same time? I certainly do think so, even though they may be killing people. That was a good response, ChasUFarley, thanks.

I disagree. I think its possible for a person or persons who work for/in twi to serve the Lord with gladness if they have the heart and mindset of those scriptures in Colossians and Ephesians that I previously quoted. Just as it is possible to serve the Lord with gladness in any other occupation with that same mindset (which is not limited to, but may include twi folks). I think that twi's demonstrated history is irrelevant to that point. For example, how about folks who work for the federal government? How about someone who fellowships in twi, who also may work for the federal government? Does working for the federal government (with its track record of functioning in a manner that is contrary to God's Word) disqualify someone, in or out of twi, from serving the Lord with gladness?

I didn't say that twi was serving the Lord thats actually beside my point. I said that those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians can serve the Lord and twi at the same time even while serving in twi. Even if one views twi like a corporation and not a ministry, the "good will doing service as to the Lord and not unto men" is performed by the participant who has that mindset, that is where the will of God can be demonstrated whether one serves in twi or in Dunkin Donuts. Perhaps some believe that it is impossible for those who serve in twi to serve the Lord, and that is ones own opinion. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion.

if one works for a corporation the corporation is "your master according to the flesh". Same deal with twi. one who works for twi has made them their master according to the flesh. Accordingly, those whose heart and mindset are in alignment with Ephesians are doing the will of God, even in twi.

Eph 6:5 ¶ Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Folks with the commitment and mindset of the above can serve both at the same time. I think this is true of any corporation/group/ministry one may serve in, and not just twi, although I would include them also.

I agree.

That's fine and I agree with you, but why do you keep on assuming that someone who expects a promise of God to come to pass is being arrogant? It may be so, but that would depend on the heart and mindset of the individual person.

A new church building wouldn't be in the Word. VPW was talking about the promises of God.. that is the context in which "the law of believing" was taught and it is in that light that it must be understood, otherwise you will be mistaken.

That is totally inaccurate. The law of believing as taught by VPW: "In order to receive anything from God, the first thing one must know is "what is available". How does one know what is available? "Find out from the Word what is available". So, if something is available from the Word, it is within God's will. There was no power or intention to have anything other than what God wants his children to have, or to change God's will with the law of believing, since it was based on "what is available" from the bible.

You seem to be criticizing those who ask God for things when they pray, as if we are using God like a tool to get what we want. Gee what a miserable disgusting way to look at it. Jesus didn't look at it that way and said "when ye pray believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them". Jesus told us "ask and ye shall receive" and that this kind of prayer was available and not evil to ask God for things. TWI does not believe that Christians are the bride of Christ. Twi believes all Christians are the body of Christ. (Romans 12:5; I Cor. 12:12, 27; Eph 4:12).

To my knowledge twi never taught that God sends draught, they teach (or taught) that all evil comes from the adversary, the devil. They teach (or taught) that tithing is protection from the adversary, something that I disbelieved a long long time ago even while in twi, so I am with you on that one. The bible does teach that believing is a requirement to receive certain things. Are you disputing this? There are some folks who even believe that Jesus' sacrifice (which encompasses the generous grace and mercy of God) covers everyone ever born (i.e. everyone is saved) irrespective of what they believe.

A quick question: do you consider religious groups who do not adhere to all of the above a cult?

I think we have a problem: this is, some verses are written impersonally, like for example: Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]. Those verses do not say "believe God for what His will is" ... it says "believe that ye receive". It is SPECIFIC that one needs to believe to receive. You can't blame VPW that the Word seems to be impersonal in various texts. It says what it says. BUT taking that verse and saying VPW taught a gospel that God is impersonal and can't think, reason, decide and communicate is ridiculous!

This statement is inaccurate when one considers other teachings of VPW, like for example the advanced class and others. VPW taught that God is not personal, that he can't think, reason, decide, communicate etc.?? Who's kidding who, that is nonsense. This is gobbledygook disguised as "wisdom". But that's the problem when double standards are used and one or two teachings are magnified in favor of others.

Oakspear, what you're saying now is different than what Dr. Juedes said which was "TWI is the sole representative on God on earth, the only place there is truth." Having a complete package means having a package of individual parts of the package; it doesn't mean that individual parts of the package are not around elsewhere; which is precisely what Dr. Juedes said, that VPW taught that he was the sole source of truth and truth does not exist in any other place. Its like having a complete package of fresh fruit (lets say apples oranges grapes bananas). Doesn't mean these fruit do not exist individually elsewhere, all it means is that there exists a complete package or the most complete package available, which is exactly what we thought twi was. Personally I do think that VPW claimed he had the most complete package available. But that is NOT what Dr. Juedes said and accuracy is important!

Hi stephaniefaye, This is the United States of America and folks have the liberty to choose their own religious group. If she's not pushing you to join, why push her to get out? In my opinion if she's happy with her involvement its none of anyone else's business. Live and let live.

From that statement, I would say that VPW was promoting that we in twi had the most answers available. Not ALL the answers, not the ONLY place there are answers or the SOLE source of answers, as Dr. Juedes keeps on promoting ... "TWI is the sole representative on God on earth, the only place there is truth."

I can go along with that too. I do believe VPW thought we in twi had the most truth available and I think that's the most factual and correct way to state it. not "TWI is the sole representative on God on earth, the only place there is truth." MOST yes, SOLE and ONLY no.

Its good to have them around and I keep mine for historical and reference purposes, regardless of whether I may agree or not, although I happen still to agree with a lot of it.

The following was posted by Mike in 2005 who was quoting Research Geek from back in 2002, who (Research Geek and Catcup) were at Pikes Peak. I add in this thread as it perhaps adds a different perspective about the "degree mill" that is thought to be Pikes Peak: