oldiesman

Wordwolf, I don't know other than its tradition, and maybe some Pope decreed along the way that that was the way it was supposed to be said and no other way. Personally I would like to hear the entire traditional high Mass in English, but I don't think its available around here. Some trads literally believe that once a Pope says something like that anything else is invalid. Of course there are exceptions: it is said that the Rosary was given to St. Dominic directly from Mary as 15 decades; then Pope John Paul added 5 more decades which the trads believe makes it invalid so there they don't accept the Popes decision. It certainly seems to be a dilemma for them to accept some Popes decrees and reject others...

As I understand it the Latin contains many more gestures and worship sequences, meaningful actions that were cut out when they reduced it at Vatican 2. When facing the cross during the original Latin Mass, the priest actually worships Jesus (which was described to me as like time travel i.e. you are there at the crucifixion) having only the altar as opposed to using a table and facing the congregants during the new Mass. Here's a video series that was suggested to me (this is part One of Three) of the set-up of the original Latin Mass, that you may find interesting:

I thought this was an interesting video (about 20 minutes) of how the RC Church got invaded from within. Right now, from what I've seen and experienced, the "Novus Ordo" Mass is a severely watered-down version of the Traditional Latin Mass. Some trads. believe the new Mass isn't valid at all. I do not hold to that view, though I do believe the traditional Mass is way more serious, reverent and worshipful.

I sometimes wonder if he tells folks (who aren't ex-twi) that most all the stuff he learned and is teaching now was from twi? He didn't mention it in the interview and I think it would be the honest thing to do. Of course perhaps he won't because twi has developed a bad reputation and he doesn't want his teachings to be diminished or disparaged.

My recollection was that TWI taught that a born-again believer was somebody who confessed Christ as Lord and believed God raised him from the dead. (Romans 10:9). At that point you were a member of the body of Christ. An unbeliever, then, was one who did not do this. Those who were of "the household of faith" or simply "the household" were exclusively active TWI believers.

Looks like JAL's stuff is all from TWI.. hasn't veered away at all. Looks good for 75... Thanks for the link...

What a fascinating topic! For those who may be interested I recently attended a talk with a Nuremberg prison guard. He was right there. (He's now 92 years old.) This video is about 30 minutes long.

Negative.

Ditto...

A friend just sent me this piece. It's well written; no argument here. It belongs here as a reference if its not here already. https://charleneedge.com/part-1-of-2-victor-paul-wierwille-and-plagiarism/?fbclid=IwAR3c5Qzp-dyweO2WC8lD-OWdwDuqakubjg3dHyg0u5gwGrZWlffSPZr9q2o

I always thought that homosexuality is a perversion and still do. I remember in high school a homo challenged me on it and said I was perverted for believing that. What did I say to him? Nothing... nothing I say would change his mind. Now, today I don't call them homos anymore I call them sodomites. "God made male and female". This is still the truth; I believe the people and society are in deep trouble, straying from this truth and is in peril, perhaps like Sodom and Gomorrah once was. I don't wish ill on anybody but I think we're in deep doo doo. Now we have Drag Queen Story Hours in libraries. ugh.

I can share what I've experienced: The Novus Ordo mass and church is a much watered-down service of the original Latin Mass and service. They say it all changed in the '60s. The traditionalists (trad Catholics) say the Novus Ordo is infiltration of "protestants" to the church back when they passed Vatican 2 in the late '60s. "Trads" do not consider the new church valid and they don't even believe that Bergoglio is the Pope. I can't explain it all but if you google "novus ordo catholic church" a few good articles and explanation will pop up. Me, I go to both services and consider both valid but I think the traditional way is more serious and reverent.

Yes. The word she specifically used was "charisms". Here is a source that I thought was interesting: http://ccro-msp.org/charisms-holy-spirit/ Notice what they say about interpretation of tongues "tongues along with interpretation amounts to prophesy". Sounds like twi! I have been to a few Catholic charismatic services where there was a word of prophesy (much like twi = edification, exhortation and comfort) but some of them spoke in tongues without interpretation. I didn't talk to them about interpretation or holding back the tongues without interpretation; there wasn't much of it. Then at the end of the service the priest has a short Mass with Eucharist communion service. Then later praying, laying on of hands. This is all in the new Novus Ordo church not the traditional (which considers SIT and other manifestations invalid.)

Hi Folks, I recently attended a teaching on the manifestations-gifts of the Holy Spirit inside the Catholic Church. Some history of them inside the church, how and where it resurfaced in the early 1900's; then the lady actually demonstrates it with audience participation and testimonials. Most curious was the excellor session on the word of knowledge she demonstrates. Do you remember if we had done those in twi? It seems to me this woman is right on. What do you think?

HI Raf, thank you for the welcome back! I have a real good friend where I live in NY who's a devout Catholic who urged me to go and I'm so happy that I did. Although I still retain some TWI teachings, its a process to put them off and put on profound truths that I didn't learn in TWI. Perhaps somebody taught it but I wasn't paying much attention? https://www.biblestudytools.com/rhe/passage/?q=john+6:51-71;+john+6:66 Eat Jesus' flesh, drink his blood.? Never delved into those in TWI but He said it. Catholics believe Jesus comes back spiritually in the Eucharist its a spiritual mystery, spiritual phenomenon. I have heard it said that the Mass is like time travel... you are there with Jesus experiencing his sacrifice and all that it means. WOW. In God there is no time, God dwells in eternity. Here's something else. Jesus is returning? How about he is returning all the time in the Eucharist? How about he already returned in 70 A.D.? Have you studied Preterism? They say that Catholics are partial preterists? It's the doctrine that the body of prophesy of the end times has already been fulfilled in 70 A.D. There is no "return" as we thought of in TWI. No "gathering together."

Now I hope to get notified when somebody posts on this thread because I haven't been for months. Don't remember how everything works.

Thanks Raf, it was a mistake for me to post under the mod name.. complete brain fart. So yeah I go to both the Novus Ordo Mass and also the Traditional Latin Mass, and guess what I do most during those? You guess it, SIT.

Good morning folks! Hope everyone is doing great. Dropped in to find out if anything is new? Or coming back to the "proverbial soap opera" where 10 years has passed and nothing changed? I still speak in tongues much daily.... LOL...

Happy New Year Everybody http://www.icq.com/img/friendship/static/card_16961_rs.swf

My mother-in-law was getting beat up by 6 large men A stranger passed by and asked "hey buddy, aren't you gonna help."? I responded "nah, 6 are enough..."

give-em hell Catcup! Attend the wedding, stand up during the ceremony and object to the union, and storm out

yeap, returned to take part in the bitter end :o

hey bro what's happenin

I like it Raffie

I know what you mean, but still disagree with the premise that it was forced; which may lead to the thought that one had no choice in the matter. Programs like WOW were a choice. Witnessing night was a choice. ( I know folks who didn't go WOW and did not show up for witnessing night (even me sometimes :D ); those were choices too.)) I tried to see it more than simply "trying to get something" (although it IS like trying to catch fish, being a fisher of men) but doing something (I believed was) profitable that may really help someone else, something outside of my usual regular comfortable, quiet, lazy self. I saw it as a great challenge too, which it definitely was, since I hate selling anything. Think about it... its not easy to walk up to someone and talk about God, whether in a mall or at someone's door. In addition to helping someone learn more about God that made some sense I think witnessing had the potential of building character, and overcoming fear. So I view this as something "I did" as opposed to being told I had to do this. My feeling is, if it is not done willingly, it is essentially valueless in the long run anyway. The part about selling PFAL then blowing out of town not caring about who is left there, is reasonable. I guess it depends on one's own mindset? Is one there simply to sell PFAL and not care a fig about the people who God brought in one's path, or view it as God bringing these people in one's path to be responsible to serve over a considerable length of time? Both mindsets were available, no doubt.