oldiesman

Here's what I think: when folks signed up to go in the Corps, they basically gave their lives to The Way Ministry. YOU DECIDED TO DO THAT! Not me, not them..YOU. YOU DECIDED TO BE UNDER THE COMPLETE INFLUENCE OF, AND COMPLETE DIRECTION OF, OTHER HUMAN BEINGS... Now years later, you talk about being victims, under fear and stress... HELLO..who put you there? YOU. Accept it. It was YOUR decision.

This is a profound statement indeed. If this is true, and they "DESIRE" to be in bondage, should we not stop blaming the trustees for an inate DESIRE "to be in bondage"?

It's my view that if/when folks were abused, they allowed themselves to be abused. The door was always open to leave. True, it was not a "democracy" by any stretch of the imagination. So what was the solution? LEAVE. I think its more believable that most folks stayed so long (10, 15, 20, 25 years), to me anyway, because for them the benefits outweighed the "abuses".

LOL! Georgio, There was also another one... "Ladies first, so you can check out her *** Oops.

Rottiegirl, unless someone was mentally retarded or a child, nobody forced PFAL down anyone's throats. It was a freewill decision. Folks need to accept responsibility for their actions. If you didn't want to take the class, you didn't have to. Lots of folks didn't. If this is true then anytime anyone buys a bible book or tape, they are fools for spending the money. Thousands of folks were blessed from taking PFAL. Just the material on being saved by grace alone, was worth the little amount of money we spent on the class. These are my feelings on it; it was money WELL spent. The only point I would agree with you on, is if you were one of the unfortunate ones who had to pay $200 for the class. That was too much, IMO.

Um, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I never heard VPW say that. I heard VPW say "all life is spirit, and cancer is life by itself" or something to that effect. Where did this idea surface that everyone who gets cancer has to be possessed? Not from VPW. If so, chapter and verse please...

Why pay to go to school? Why pay for a class of any kind? Because people are entitled to receive the fruit of their labor, no matter what they do, whether teaching a bible class or selling soap. This is a biblical principle. It takes money to do things. Time is money. Buying equipment, paying salaries for work, employing folks to generate books and tapes, etc. etc. I recently purchased a tape set from CES. Quite good. Were they wrong for charging me a fee to hear biblical teachings? If you want to debate whether PFAL was too much money at certain times, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

So true. So true. If memory serves, didn't VPW say this in a different way, in PFAL? something like "when the Word is rightly-divided, you have the word of truth ... and when the Word is wrongly-divided, you have error? Personally, I'm willing to believe that some of PFAL has been wrongly-divided. Hey Wierwille was human after all...

Mike, Please don't say "Christians Believe The Preposterous" is God-Breathed. I have serious issues with that...

Hi JesseJoe, I'm not sure what you mean about "God isn't limited by organizations or individuals". Isn't that the way people initially learn about and believe the gospel, through others preaching? Consider these verses: Rom 10:14 -- How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Rom 10:15 -- And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! You said if TWI-1 wasn't around, there'd be others? Which ones? Jehovah's witnesses? Roman Catholic? others? These other groups didn't work for me; TWI-1 did.

Oakspear, I agree. This is the SECOND thing we agree on!

Oakspear, that's a good point and I agree. VPW never claimed he was infallible.

JesseJoe, Perhaps God works with all sorts of different folks in different ways, in a manner they will come to appreciate. For me, it was with TWI-1. They were there when I needed to hear things about God that made some sense. I grew up Roman Catholic, and was taught from them a gospel of salvation by works, traditional paganistic rituals, and idolatry. It didn't help me in the slightest.

Oakspear, I think the way you phrase the question is tough for me to answer. What does "on par with the bible" mean? Do I think that TWI-1 and PFAL was "of God"? Yes definitely. I'm not sure if that equates with "on par with the bible" though. Perhaps you can explain in more detail what you mean.

If it hadn't been for VPW and TWI-1, I "probably" would never have even heard of folks like B.G. Leonard, Stiles, or Bullinger. It was because of my involvement with TWI-1 that I know about these folks, even though they existed all along. Perhaps what Mike is trying to say (I don't know, I'm just speculating) is that TWI and VPW played a role in getting us the Word when we needed it, like no other group or person was able to do. For example, even though B.G. Leonard's class has been around for decades, how many of us were exposed to it or learned about it? I never heard of it or come in contact with it, even up until now. Thank God TWI-1 was around when I (and lots of others) needed to hear the Word, otherwise I might very well still be waiting, all these years and years.

Hope, I don't think you know me but of course I know you. I always thought you were a popular celebrity in TWI, with your singing and all. Regarding the bestiality film, I guess it's one of those things we definitely could have done without, like so many other things. "Myth of the 6 Million" comes to mind. Other things like that just don't contribute to moving the Word and only make matters worse in the long run.

Bookworm, Are you referring to the 1 week camp immediately after the PFAL camp, in July of 1973? I was at the PFAL camp there, I believe it was the first week in July, then the second week was the CFS camp which I didn't attend. I do remember VPW coming into the last session of PFAL, and leading all the grads there into SIT. Were you there too? I do remember attending a CFS camp that same year, in December of 1973 in NY, but I don't think it was Shelter Island, I think it was someplace else near LI, but I forget now. But strange enough, I don't remember seeing the bestiality tape. It could have been viewed, I just don't remember it. So I probably didn't see it as that's something I would have remembered, probably. LOL!

I have Windows XP and went to the Baseline Security Analyzer site and downloaded it, it took a little while, but after it was all over listed the vulnerabilities. Then to cure the vulnerabilities it took me to "Microsoft Windows Update", and then I installed all the updates, including the new Windows XP service pack. Question: if the solution is the same, wouldn't I have saved some time just going directly to the Microsoft Windows Update website and download the updates directly from there, rather than spending time with the Baseline Security Analyzer? Just wondering if it's worth it to run the "Analyzer" when all I need to do is Update every once in a while. Thanks!

I'm in full agreement with this statement. Mrs. Wierwille told me once that I should marry my best friend. That's the best advice I've ever received on the subject.

I don't know of any catfood guide, but at a recent visit to the vet, he suggested I feed my cats a 100% nutritionally complete dry food exclusively, such as Science Diet. I'm currently feeding my cats Science Diet Oral Care. He said he sees thousands of cats in a year, and the ones who are exclusively on a 100% nutritionally complete dry food diet are the ones he sees the least of.

Waygone, are you witnessing? LMAO

Thanks for the kind words Abigail. The post WAS intended to be funny, but unfortunately some here don't like my sense of humor. Such is life.

Mark, I never got one of those statues, unfortunately, but I'd love to have one if they exist. By the way, I do have a really nice photo of Dr. & Mrs. Wierwille hanging up in my kitchen right now. And it ain't coming down anytime soon.

Excathedra, What do you mean when you say "admire"? I think it's a little too indirect. Why not redo the poll, and use the word "worship". Then of course I'll vote "yes". By the way, I just finished setting up a shrine in my living room; does anyone have an extra Bronze Statue I can put there and worship? LMAO