oldiesman

Wordwolf, If you're suggesting the same thing Tom said, that Dr. Wierwille said 'satan would kill us' if we left the Way, please furnish proof of that. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just requesting proof. Thank you.

Wordwolf, I don't remember the thread you are speaking about and its possible I wasn't posting at that time. As far as asking for corroboration, that's justified especially with statements like that. May I ask, do you believe everything you read on the internet, without question?

Abigail, just because I don't answer trick questions in the framework presented, doesn't mean I'm dodging or ignoring the issue. Sometimes I prefer to answer questions in my own framework, and I think I answered enough questions on this thread for anyone to get the gist of where I'm coming from.

Satan would kill us? You heard VPW or other Trustees during his time say that? Chapter and verse please. Teaching tape # please? I definitely would have remembered that because I was in and out a few times.

Ok Abigail I think you and some of the other Mothers and others here think you're wiser than Solomon. Perhaps you folks should write your own bible? Have fun.

Have no idea. But before I accuse people of promotion and condoning child abuse, I prefer to get all the facts from all sides.

oldiesmanpics@aol.com

Tom, I've seen some instances of what I would call child abuse. It happened. I have no doubt that Coolwaters and others experienced it too. But to say that TWI (the Trustees at that time), condoned it, promoted it, or infer that we in TWI were part of a "system" of child abuse all those years, is simply false. If it's true, prove it. I haven't seen proof. The issue of the "rod" is relevant because those who believe use of the rod constitutes child abuse also believe TWI engaged in child abuse. Simple. Nothing will change their minds.

Shazdancer, I think they did stop it at one point. Lindyhopper said that during one rock, they corrected everyone because it was seen that folks got overboard with it. But, as evidenced on this thread, there are some folks who believe even the "right way" is still child abuse. Some folks now believe hitting is never justified, at all. Let's be clear on that.

Shazdancer, A fable is just that, a story that is thought provoking. But thanks for sharing what you were taught in TWI...it doesn't sound like child abuse to me...despite what some believe. One thing is certain and I'm sure of...there are some folks who DEFINITELY believe the bible teaches/encourages child abuse. If not, they would have believed what you're saying/sharing about what TWI taught. Thanks.

Coolwaters, once again, you're labelling all of TWI from your morbid, accusative, half-truth reality. You may accuse me of looking at only the positive side, and the positives of people; perhaps a fair conclusion. But you DEFINITELY look, focus and continue to promote only the trash. I think what I said before was correct...you think continuous evil of certain people and groups. Please don't deny it.

Taking the worst of beatings, crimes, rapes, etc. and using examples like that and trying to compare that to parents biblically correcting their children with the rod, just doesn't wash. It doesn't apply, we're talking apples and oranges. Nice try though.

Beating a child to correct them has nothing to do with the parents temper...we learned that in TWI. This issue has everything to do with the thread and is not a derailment. TWI is accused of fostering child abuse, partly because it espoused use of the rod. You said it yourself, and some of you believe use of the rod is child abuse. In fact, use of the rod is biblical. The fact that you won't or can't accept it now (after years and years of accepting it in TWI without question) doesn't change facts and truth.

LMAO

Coolwaters, had the child been beaten by the mother, chances are he wouldn't have stolen further, and wouldn't have subsequently bitten off her ear. Aesop was a child abuser too, eh?

"The Thief And His Mother" The Thief and His Mother A BOY stole a lesson-book from one of his schoolfellows and took it home to his Mother. She not only abstained from beating him, but encouraged him. He next time stole a cloak and brought it to her, and she again commended him. The Youth, advanced to adulthood, proceeded to steal things of still greater value. At last he was caught in the very act, and having his hands bound behind him, was led away to the place of public execution. His Mother followed in the crowd and violently beat her breast in sorrow, whereupon the young man said, "I wish to say something to my Mother in her ear." She came close to him, and he quickly seized her ear with his teeth and bit it off. The Mother upbraided him as an unnatural child, whereon he replied, "Ah! if you had beaten me when I first stole and brought to you that lesson-book, I should not have come to this, nor have been thus led to a disgraceful death." - an Aesop's Fable translated by George Fyler Townsend

Tom, I think I know what you mean ... even back in the 1970's it was thought that if you left the ministry, you were "tripped out" and stuff. However, I don't think that rose anywhere near to the level of being "snuffed out" like Craig and Donna suggested. There were a few times in my TWI years that I was tripped out... In fact the very first time I took the Advanced Class back in 1978, immediately prior to that I wasn't attending twig for 6 months. It really was no big deal.

Tom, I think TWI-2 started around 1986 with the POP paper. I think the "earliest" it could have been is 1982 with Craig becoming President.

That's part of what is commonly known as TWI-2, which is another reason why it was different than TWI-1.

IMF777, I never prayed for evil to be directed at anyone. However, there have been times in my life, in TWI, that when evil was done to me, evil was somehow returned to the evildoer.

I don't think you're a bad person at all! On the contrary, I think you're a good person who thinks continual evil about certain particular people and groups. You're a witch, aren't you?

Coolwaters are you a witch ?

I think you folks just don't believe Proverbs. Period. I believe those words are just as much revelation as anyplace else in the bible. more on the rod

Yeah the Trustees should be blamed because they forced people to wait for Session 12 before they allowed people to speak in tongues.

This is true... Years ago, I was talking with a friend at work who's daughter heard that in TWI, you must speak in tongues to be saved. I asked my friend to please correct her daughter and tell her to do better research about TWI because they never taught that SIT was a requirement to be saved. Thanks Raf.