oldiesman

In regards to Rev. Liberty's article: Does Ms. Liberty use the bible as her source of authority and truth? Because as far as I know, the bible doesn't give a pass to those who are complicit and initiate adultery and fornication. If I'm wrong, please supply biblical passages to argue the point.

There's a question I've wanted to ask for a while, and since this was brought up, I might as well ask. Are there any other women besides Marsha and Excathedra who claim having first-hand experience of being drugged by Dr. Wierwille? (By being drugged I don't mean just alcohol, but something was put in the drink that prohibited these women from acting responsibly, saying no, etc.)

I do think there's something to be said about the above, especially from those who knew him and didn't experience evil, but good from him. There's a viewpoint that says, "why take personally another person's alleged evil experience, when he did right by me." I think alot of ex-way people fall in this category, and don't feel obligated to jump on the proverbial finger-pointing bandwagon, which may explain why there are so many who don't post. [This message was edited by oldiesman on December 29, 2003 at 6:02.]

I'd say that VPW was in fact an intentional evil-doer. But so is everyone else! It's called sinning. It's called not being perfect. Unless one believe's the last time they sinned, it was accidental? I venture to say that if a Greasepot poster's sins were commented on, ad infinitem, and every sin and bad habit pattern, were encouraged to be brought forth and out in the open on the internet, the way they encourage and bring forth Dr. Wierwille's sins, it wouldn't be a pretty sight. It would be very nasty. It could be very devastating. Check out Matthew 5 and ask yourself if you've been perfect lately, as God is perfect. Matthew 5

Galen, I'm with you, I like PFAL too and thought it was excellent. A few things now stick out like a sore thumb, such as the purported "law of believing" and "Christians Believe The Preposterous"; but other things so overwhelmingly made up for that: Jesus is Lord, Christ in You the Hope of Glory, Salvation by Grace, being sealed with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, etc. I'm very glad TWI (VPW and many others) were around to teach those things.

Outin88, Funny you bring that up because your current belief was VPW's belief when he wrote that on page 9 of Jesus Christ is not God in the introduction. I was surprised reading that, because before that, we were taught that the abundant life meant "life in all of its manifestations", physical, material, spiritual, etc. What a surprise to learn that Dr. was adding a wholly different twist to it. Today, I concur and believe what you believe and what VP wrote in JCING.

Mike, please start a topic and respond one by one to Rafael's "PFAL Errors" list. I've been waiting for your response on those issues, and since you'll be having much more time soon, a response from you on those issues would be appreciated.

Steve thanks for the compliment. Have a great weekend, everyone.

Vickles, No, I'm sure I would've seen it if it were present where I was fellowshipping for all those years. I even made an attempt myself to be a twig coordinator in 1990, and even then I didn't dog people about ABS when the horn was passed around, when cash was collected without qualification. This was in 1990. Ironically, the last twig I went to was about 40 miles away from my house, and the woman running the thing would collect cash and checks for ABS, but wouldn't deposit the stuff until sometimes a month later. Finally one day when my checks weren't getting cashed promptly, I asked her about it, suggesting that she should deposit the money promptly and not sit on it. She didn't take too kindly to that suggestion, and accused ME of legalism (Ha ha). And that was pretty much the last TWI fellowship I attended. I think we've all had our share of wierd experiences, but I think I'm correct in saying that the true anal-retentive legalism of TWI-2 started in the early 1990's and beyond.

Yes I think TWI-1 is the late 70's and prior to that...

CW, I was in the TWI-1 that wasn't restrictive and/or anal retentive at all. Good leadership who loved folks and just wanted God's will to prevail in people's lives. Even tithing/ABS wasn't micromanaged...those were the days when you were allowed to give cash...

Lightside, I'd like to read it if anyone has it, or if it's contents can be posted it would be appreciated.

Mike, thanks for mentioning this incident.

Watered Garden, thx for mentioning something nice about the Medical WOWs. I shant hesitate to add that they weren't the only good folks around. Lots of folks weren't mind-controlled morons. Individual experiences may vary.

Coolwaters, I didn't suggest your experience was invalid, just not necessarily indicative of Waybrain. There's nothing personal here. But I would say you heard some pretty strange things that's not necessarily attributable to twi policy. You also said Dr. Wierwille said that diabetes was caused by a devil spirit? That's a new one on me.

Datway, if this was a TWI-2 custom, then it came after I left. When I was around, the homeowners I knew were happy to remain as homeowners. On the other hand if you wanted to go in the Corps you had to get out of debt, but is that really Waybrain? A requirement of the Corps maybe...

Jehovah's Witnesses not taking blood transfusions is like something I'm talking about. That's an established doctrine, with a written interpretation from the bible, and they all believe that same doctrine. I'd call that JWBrain.

Datway, I'm not picking fights just rendering a thoughtful opinion. Third Aid is something that proves TWI wasn't against doctors and medication. There would have been no third aid if TWI was against doctors and medication. Individual experiences may vary.

Just Thinking, that's definitely Waybrain...

Coolwaters, absolutely I'm serious. I was involved in TWI for 17 years and not once was I ever discouraged from using medication, going to doctors, etc. Do you know of any way books that promote the idea that doctors, medication, etc. should be discouraged?

This is an example of what Waybrain is NOT. For example, substitute this person with a devout Jehovah's Witness. Or how about a devout Roman Catholic? Same deal, only different group names. They would think they're more connected and accurate because of the religious group they're involved in. That's fairly common with religious groups.

What exactly is Waybrain? I'd like to advance the possibility that Waybrain is all (or most) of us all believing the same thing and thinking the same thoughts. Individual experiences vary however. Being advised not to take medication is not necessarily Waybrain, because experiences of others (myself included) may lend credence to having to take medication and there's nothing in Way doctrine that ever prohibited or discouraged medication. If however there's something documented as a standard policy for everyone, then I would think that's fair game to be labelled as Waybrain.

It's available

Wonder, Assuming you believe as many of us who left TWI do, who still think they taught lots of goodies, my recommendation is to consider what Paradiseden said and check out CES or CFF. It all depends on how strong your beliefs are but that's what I would do. I order CES tapes sometimes and know that CFF has some good folks involved there. I would also do what Hope said. Take a year off away from all religion and get a breath of fresh air, if you will. After a year, you may find out what truths you learned in TWI really stuck and what didn't.

Thanks for the info. Evan. I can't believe the closest theatre showing from where I live is in Waterbury Connecticut. I'm going to try to make it this weekend if it works. Has anyone else seen this since last week?