oldiesman

Taken from another thread, Hope R. said: Hope, I didn't see that as being unreasonable considering the circumstances. But it's possible it could be overboard with simple Corps grads. I don't know but are you saying that even Corps grads were asked for a written response by April 5? I didn't get that part. But I saw what he was asking for was folks to stand with him, and for the employees not to be insubordinate. Here's one quote: That sounds reasonable; I see nothing wrong with him asking the Geerites, and all the other folks discontent with his leadership, to make a decision. There was much discontent and all he's asking for is folks to make a decision who you're going to stand with, since the committed Geerites' position was that the BOT were worshipping other gods.

Insurgent, How do you know that LCM didn't address their concerns, for those who cared to address them directly to him? I was involved at the time and yes I stand by what I say. Lots of folks didn't care much about what LCM had to say at the time; I remember this time in TWI being very accusatory against LCM. Being in NY at the time, the limb coordinator at the time conVINCEd almost everyone in NY to abandon TWI. Did they address their concerns directly with LCM and Don Wierwille before leaving? NADA. At least not those I was exposed to in my area; they just left, with only one side of the story. So in that sense all Craig did was help people move onto something else if they were against TWI. ... not necessarily a bad thing. I looked for the letter on GS but couldn't find it, if anyone has a link perhaps it can be posted here so folks may view its contents.

If I may, one point in defense of Craig's letter of 1989 (the famous Loyalty Oath letter) was that it was directed to Way employees and not everybody in the Way. I remember at this time there were numerous people on the fence and those still salaried by TWI who were against them (the Geerites). There were reports of folks still on TWI payroll sending ABS to Geer. And so I didn't think that Craig's letter was all that bad because it drew the line. Of course, it gave folks who were on the fence ample excuses to leave. But I think it's what happened after that with all the legalism that was really bad.

Wow I agree. I think the Corps was the big problem; where the jerk, legalism and ego training was taught and promoted. To me, it's the clearest least common denominator of what was, and what went wrong with TWI.

JustThinking, thanks for the info. That would explain the folks at hq, but what about those out in the field. Someone very close to me, out on the field, got dismissed from the Corps for marrying a non-corps spouse. Another person close to me got hassled for owning a cat. Gee, what a great way to encourage more love in the household! NOT!

I see this as a very big injustice by LCM & Co. Does anyone know/care to opine what would motivate him to do this? As if some Corps folks weren't snobby enough...

I get the impression that Mel's motive for doing this was both for profit (which isn't a sin) and for expounding the gospels. Hey, that's fantastic...how can anyone complain about that? LLP, regarding the primary focus on the torture, isn't it a good thing because that's exactly what the gospels say, albeit with few words, explaining all about how Christ gave his life and what horror he had to go through. This film is a coup for biblical fans. One would think that TWI folks would be happy about a film that is more accurate than others on this topic. Just look at all the watered-down crucifixion accounts we've been exposed to all these years and tell me Mel's film isn't head and shoulders above them biblically.

A La Prochaine, I don't think I'm being harsh. I disagree. Did you happen to check out Catcup's thread? (Stand Up And Hold Her Accountable) She asks some very direct questions, for those still in; perhaps you and others still in may consider those questions.

I'm not sad or lonely, really. But thanks for your loving concern.

Let's break out the violin accompanyment. Steve, my spiritual halitosis counter is jumping. If a person still in TWI is willing to forego their personal opinions and feelings and remain in hellish bondage, as you maintain, thereby willing to "cross the widest ocean" and "climb the highest mountain" and "ford the deepest river" for loved ones who couldn't give a damn about what they feel or think; while simultaneously moaning, criticising and complaining how they are in hellish TWI bondage; their opinions/viewpoint is open to scrutiny and response.

A La Prochaine, I get your point, no need to feeling sorry for me. I am of the belief that open rebuke is better than secret love. For all parties involved.

Steve, If it's as absolutely hellish as you say it is, then it's God's will for them to be released from that prison, most definitely. You talk about loved ones. Of course children are not responsible, but if you have a spouse that won't meet you at least half way, at least try to understand your reservations/doubts about what's happening, but continues dogmatically to adhere to lies deceptions and falsehoods, then is it such a crime to depart from that "loved one". I don't know about you, but I don't need "loved ones" who couldn't give a fig about what I thought and felt about things.

A La Prochaine, So then your point is, it's better to keep quiet lest thou get hassled, and not try to reprove, rebuke and correct? I don't know. It looks to me like your friends did the exact right thing, even though they got hassled later. But their actions did reveal some things, didn't it? I still'd like to hear more of what they have to say, before I make a significant judgment on their thoughts.

Did anyone ever hear words from Jesus? As far as I know, he never spoke directly to me like I'm speaking to you now. Of course, I could have been distracted or not listening. I could be spiritually bankrupt.

Rascal, it seems to me that John did the right thing by speaking his mind. I'll be honest with you guys, I don't know about this secretive lifestyle in TWI-2 where you have to be a victim, keep quiet, and can't speak your mind and ask questions otherwise you'd be outed and thrown out. Hey, under those conditions, maybe its better if you get thrown out? Old Shakes said "to thine ownself be true". I think its a better lifestyle than complaining about TWI-2 that you're in a prison and can't move. I'd free myself, but that's me. Individual experiences may vary.

I thought this was one of the best threads. I miss Dave Anderson and his thoughtful posts.

Insurgent, The way I did it when I was still in was write a letter directly to LCM. I did this when I had questions on tithing. LCM sent my letter to the research department, and I did get an answer back. I wasn't satisfied with the answer, but at least they did put something in writing. The whole point being let's hear what the BOD has to say before we judge their thoughts. One would think TWI might be supportive of the film, since it shows the very real intense suffering Christ endured, something like TWI has been teaching all these years. Hopefully they'd be willing to put their beliefs in writing. I'd write the letter myself only I doubt they'd respond to an ex-wayfer.

Wayward, I gather you're still in TWI? If so, what did they say exactly? And how about challenging some of the statements? (that's what I would do if I were "still in") For instance, write a short note to whoever you heard disparage "The Passion" and see what the response is, if any? or can you call them?

I highly doubt it. We learned years ago (I think from Sunesis or somebody else) that DM had lesbian tendencies. She supposedly confessed this to Dr. Wierwille sometime. Anyway, I can't see Craig asking his own wife to do a threesome... Maybe some other young gals, but not his wife. I agree with everything Catcup and Sunesis stated on this thread.

No Mike, I haven't. I am not that fond of homework assignments. But I would like to learn more about how I may continue to allow the floodgates of Satan's Prosperity to flow into my life.

So then I am receiving prosperity from Satan because I am disparaging Christians Should Be Prosperous? Hmmm... Maybe if I keep talking, Satan'ill let me win lotto millions?

Who made the statement and exactly what was said? Sounds to me like they need to be reminded of our Lord and Saviour's good graces. I'd write them a letter and give them my two cents, for what it's worth.

Another false accusation against TWI is saying we disparaged "The Cross of Christ". We didn't. We believed all the accuracy and truth there was to be told about "The Cross Christ Bore." We didn't wear gold and silver crosses around our necks because it was viewed (I think now mistakenly) as some sort of celebration for the method of Jesus's execution. (Some Satan worshippers like the upside down cross). But, there's no question that we honored, respected and believed in Jesus's sacrifice.

Am I missing something? When and where did TWI comment on "The Passion"?

God wants me to prosper... Satan wants me to prosper... I am everybody's pal...