oldiesman

I learned of his extra-marital affair with an AOS cast member, years later. At this point in time (1989) I hadn't known about it at all. Don't know if everyone knew at that point as well. However, who's to really say at that point he wasn't making a fresh start and a new commitment? What he was asking for was the benefit of the doubt, and I didn't see where that would have been an ungodly (or carnal) choice.

Raf, ha ha.. Actually, I thought at the point of his request his mind was decent and in order and the reasoning behind the decision was sound. I remember back then, he was coming out of the fog, and 3-4 years after that, the Word did move as best as they could (I say 'they' because I was basically gone in 1991); there was still PFAL around until 1994 or so and the other things like WOW. The fact that you believe Craig at that point was a carnal thinker only goes to why he made the decision; to have folks think that way (and certainly express it verbally, continually) only makes it that much more difficult and tumultuous for everyone in the TWI family (household).

Excerpted from Craig's Companion Loyalty Letter II April 14, 1989

People paying $1000 a month mortgage toward the eventual "ownership" of a house cannot lead a fellowship; but people paying $1000 in rent toward the pocketbooks of someone else can? I just don't get their logic. (or illogic)

Golfie, As soon as I added my ABS from the forms, I threw them in the trash. They're destroyed. I still have a couple of light brown songbooks but can't find any more blue ones. Guess I must have destroyed them, too.

Ok I'm ready to spill the beans. According to my source, who knows VP's real signature and examined all three signatures, No's 1 and 2 are from his handlers; #3 is the REAL WIERWILLE #2 is from his secretary at that time #1 is from one of his handlers, don't know who

Raf, I guess we're just going to have to disagree on this one. I think the reason why the scripture doesn't address whether the baby comes out dead or alive, is because the answer is pretty obvious. But that's me. I don't think the bible has to state every minute detail for us at times to use our common sense on some things.

Rafael, I read those links, and it seems to me that the folks on the side of "premature birth" are ignoring common horse sense. Let's say you and I are having a fight, and I cause the pregnant woman, who is 3 months pregnant, to abort. Are you saying that that fetus is going to stay alive after coming out? "and yet no mischief follow" can't mean the fetus in this case, can it? That's what these folks are ignoring, it seems they're just ignoring the obvious.

Rafael, I think the "premature birth" argument makes little sense because when a fetus "departs" and is at the 1st or 2nd term, mischief will ALWAYS follow, because the fetus will surely die unless some miracle takes place. Therefore I think the mischief refers to harm to the woman, not the fetus. The only way I see no mischief following and it refers to the fetus is if in the third term and the mother is near childbirth already. But that seems to me more outlandish. If that was what he was talking about, don't you think that verse would be more clear? What do you think?

I'd be more inclined to agree with it being a crime, for a late-term pregnancy where the "fetus" could live outside of the mother. Something like partial birth abortion, which I think should be banned. However, I do have a problem with charging a federal crime for the termination of "any stage of development" of the fetus. I think that's overboard.

Pat, I think the above statement gives you a good defense if Paul is willing to testify on your behalf.

Shaz, thanks for your response. From my source, I can relay that Wierwille Signature #1 and Wierwille Signature #2 are NOT the same person! Maybe one of them is the REAL Wierwille? P.S. Thanks for all responses from everyone...but only 27 poll participants so far, if you haven't voted yet please do...

Pat, please ask about the true relationship between Donna and Rosalie and why Donna gets to remain at hq. Is it just a good friendship, or something much deeper? Even if it were a friendship, why the royal treatment? As you know, this is quite important to lots of us cause of past TWI policy, that demands the spouse of disgraced or terminated Corps be sent away with the disgraced or terminated Corps.

Thursday, President Bush signed into law new protections for the unborn that, for the first time, make it a separate federal crime to harm a fetus during an assault on the mother. The legislation defines an "unborn child" as a child in utero "any stage of development." Clearly, this puts into law for the first time that a fetus is a living soul. Contrast with TWI's view that when the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, at that time, and not before, man became a living soul. Additionally, Dr. Wierwille expounds from the Old Testament Exodus 21:22-24 showing that the fetus wasn't considered a human being. Wierwille writes: Victor Paul Wierwille By The Way April 30, 1981 I tend to agree with Wierwille and think the Old Testament view is more reasonable. What do you think?

Hallelujah! After days of searching and digging, cutting through the piles of TWI-related papers, I found a copy of Craig's "companion" letter to his March, 1989 Loyalty Letter. This letter is dated April 14, 1989 and is addressed "Dear Staff Believer". It goes further why Craig made the decision. I sent a PDF to PAW and asked him to post it. Comments will follow...

This topic has been addressed before but I thought I'd bring it up again. I've been going thru some old TWI letters and papers, and guess what I found? Completed Blue Forms. Specifically, from the time I was a twig coordinator from 9-89 thru 9-90. Guess how much I myself contributed to hq during that stint? $4,857.43. Holy smokes. WOW! I didn't realize I was so generous! I figure over the years, I must have contributed to TWI-1 at least $20,000.00 or so. And that's not even accounting for my Way Corps sponsorship contributions! How about you? P.S. I realize now how much money they're losing by dissing all the old time Way believers!

Ok Dot, thanks. I think very few of them after 1982. From what Dot said, all of them could have been intercepted unless they were in a separate envelope. Coolwaters, I don't know what you mean.

During my stint in TWI-1, I've gathered quite a few letters, and some of those were from Dr. Wierwille. However, one particular letter is reason for this topic. It was 1983, and I wrote to Wierwille to notify him of something wrong happening and asked him for a response. I got a response, but it was wierd, kind of like it was somebody else responding. I checked the signature, and sure enough, the signature didn't match with previous responses I had received from Wierwille. So was this Dr. Wierwille responding in that 1983 or somebody else? How many signatures of Dr. Wierwille are there? I investigated this, and discovered that yes, that 1983 letter to Wierwille wasn't looked at by him, nor responded to by him, but one of his letter handlers. Do you know THE REAL signature of Dr. Wierwille? Take a look at the three I have provided; Are all of them phonies? Do you think one is real? Pick the one you think is THE REAL one, if it's there... The answer will be given in a few days. The Multiple Signatures of VPW

I've been reading some old TWI-1 letters and found a letter written to me on Way Stationery from Bo Reahard, who I believe at that time (1978) was the Trunk Coordinator. I asked what was the meaning of Galatians 6:10 and the word "all". Here is an excerpt of his response: And so what I've gleaned from Bos' response is, as long as we do good (God's will), it really doesn't matter "to whom". I think his response is reasonable and is another reason why TWI-1 was different from TWI 3,4. I don't think we'd get a response like that from TWI today.

It doesn't mean it was ok but neither does it negate his godly works. It's not good to claim Dr. Wierwille plagiarized most of his books without proof. For one, one looks biased and irresponsible for making such a claim if there's not enough proof. But I'm open to evidence if it's out there. Look at it this way: let's say I'm speaking with a pro-Wierwille ex-wayfer and I want to make the point that most of Dr. Wierwille's books are plagiarized. Chances are that person is going to disbelieve it, without proof. So the person asks "where's the proof". Well, currently I can prove that some paragraphs were plagiarized; not most of his books.

Pat, from the evidence I've seen, only a small portion of Dr. Wierwille's books were actually plagiarized. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm open to revising my beliefs. P.S. I've already seen the evidence from Juedes...which seems to me is only a small portion of the totality of Wierwille's books...if you have more, please feel free to supply it.

NLBT, I started seriously questioning tithing around 9 years after I first took PFAL. Why did it take so long? The answer is simple, I think because I was blessed and happy with everything else, that it wasn't that big a deal. People hung around for 15, 20, 25 years knowing there were imperfections, but I think the godly elements and benefits outweighed the hassles. That's the best answer I come up with why folks didn't leave sooner or right away. Individual experiences may vary.

Pat, the main point you seem to be making is that because Dr. Wierwille plagiarized some material, the Way Ministry wasn't a legitimate Christian ministry but nothing more than a profit-making business. Evidence exists that it was both.

Watered Garden, you haven't answered the question. Do you now understand WHY you have it and WHAT you did? Do you see how you need to get your believing up? Just kidding. :)--> I have Type 2.

No thanks, I'd rather be a floater....