oldiesman

Tom We're getting into motive again. I don't know that he "deliberately" taught error to deliberately deceive. That's motive. Does the Roman Catholic Church deliberately teach that Mary is the Mediatrix because they deliberately want to deceive people and turn them away from Jesus alone as the Mediator? I take VP's erroneous teachings as what they are: error. I don't read any more into it, for I don't want to harbor a suspicious and accusative mind set that could be wrong.

Juan What substantive denial? I don't equate twi's teaching about and adherence to the church epistles as denying the Master. No way, shape or form does that viewpoint deny Jesus, for the epistles exalt and honor Jesus repeatedly.

Oenophile Quite the contrary, I am all for folks sharing their experiences and airing their stories. Please do. But there's more than that going on here, principally the excessive victim mentality propaganda laced with perpetual hatred of Victor Paul and the BOT. That's a lot more than just airing stories. No matter, Greasespot is a good place to be and I'm not a twi operative, haven't been involved with them for over 10 years. By the way, I can't derail a thread alone. "Don't Feed The Monster". If folks don't want derailments, don't respond to my posts. Thanks.

Juan I think Wierwille put it best when he said believing "Jesus Christ is not God" doesn't demote Jesus Christ, but rather, elevates God to his exalted supreme position. "He alone is God". Doesn't disparage Jesus in any way, shape or form.

Rascal How do you know I never met him? I first met him in 1973 at the end of my first PFAL class at a camp in NY. Spent some time with him a year later, at a CFS camp. Spent some time with him again in 1978, at an advanced class. Spent an entire month with him in 1984, on a motorcycle trip across the country and back. MO I also think his teaching on tithing in CSBP was false, but I don't label someone a false teacher based on some false teachings, what I do is weigh everything, true and false teachings. I think his teachings were more true than false. As I recall, he said in 1976 that the commies would take over if we didn't get the word over the usa. Don't know and wouldn't surmise anything else about it, but calling someone a false prophet based on that one example is weak. I never said everything he taught was true...

Hi Mo, I can't help interpret the relentless condemnation of Wierwille by some as anything but hatred of the man. Come on let's face it, some folks hate his guts. He's the evil monster, worse than Frankenstein or Adolph. Yeah, and most of those folks are the ones who never post. Good point, and I'd say that's right if Wierwille were still alive, doing evil. But Wierwille's dead. He doesn't continue to do wrong and doesn't refuse to admit wrong and doesn't continue to hurt others, because he's dead. If he was still alive, I'd understand and your point is well taken.

Nothing Oakspear. Just trying to inject a little humor. I forgot to wink. ;)-->

OK, so what are you complaining about then, huh?

Here's Another Set

TO ALL WIERWILLE HATERS: Grizzy is correct. Please begin your threads on evenings (after 5:00 pm.) and weekends so that you may enjoy unabated and uninterrupted Wierwille condemnation. Thanks.

You're both assuming that a person's evil works, or sins, defines them as a false prophet and that's the end of the story. That's your belief, your opinion. how does anyone know Wierwille's good works were motivated by evil? are you the Amazing Kreskin?

Tom, and when one takes all the evidence, both good and evil into consideration, what may one conclude?

The very first verse kills your thesis. You're saying Dr. was a false prophet and teacher? No way. He taught folks the exact biblical teaching on how to come to God thru Christ, our lord and saviour, and other biblical goodies. And when did Wierwille ever deny Jesus Christ? Again, I would suggest that when all you focus on, all you deem that has any meaning, is a person's evil deeds, you come to irrational and biased conclusions.

Hi Pat, I dug up all the Way Mags. from December 1972 which was my earliest all thru the end of 1974. Also looked in some from 1975 and 1976. Not there. Judging from Raf's quote, it sounds like something that would have been said well before 1973. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Question: as part of the lawsuit, can't you get TWI to produce all of the pre-1976 Way Magazines?

Evan, let's not forget that Dr. Wierwille learned from men of God scattered across the continent. That means his teachings should be understood in that light. There's still lots of goodies in PFAL and other Wierwille books, despite his inappropriate conduct.

Yes Pat that helps a little. I'll see if I can dig up what you're looking for.

Can you be more specific?

Apatheia Unbelief I refuse to travel 1 1/2 hours to go to church.

Then theres .... We Like The Subs

OR THIS

Here's another $$$ sale, sadness for those who threw away their set... PFAL books

Oakspear, I'll take a stab at why. I think two reasons: political and financial. Victor Paul Wierwille"By The Way" -- St. Mary's Evening Leader Sept. 26, 1980 I would add that another reason why he had these books was religious, wanted us to know or at least be aware that the Jews are not "God's Chosen People" and that even the Jews must go through Jesus Christ to come to the Father ...

laleo, thanks for your thoughtful assessment, and your realization that what i said isn't, or wasn't meant to be, blame-shifting.

Wonder 1, I don't think I'd have a problem going to a local fellowship if there were one by me. But I think the closest one to me is around 1 1/2 hours away. Too far. If I went to check it out, I wouldn't send money to hq, but I'd be happy to contribute fine coffee and twinkies.

Thanks Oakspear.