oldiesman

The Word takes the place of the absent LCM.

Raf, I have to be honest with you, I think she's exaggerating. I'm not calling her an out and out liar, and it's possible these things were said to her -- but I just don't believe everything she says. Period. It's almost like crying wolf. Rascal has made some extremely highly rhetorical statements here on Greasespot, and I just don't believe it all. Besides, not everyone believes everything I say as well. Right Raf?

I asked them if the rumor on the internet was true, that bookstore items are now available to former believers? She said, "where did you hear that from"? I responded "Greasespot Cafe". She said, yes, it's true, the bookstore is now open to former believers ... She didn't ask my name or location, and I told her I was a "former believer". Also, she told me they have everything in stock in the PFAL series, books 1-5, all the collaterals, plus RHST, JCING, JCOP, JCOPS, ATDAN, etc., everything except the PFAL book itself, which is no longer available. Didn't ask when the change came about, I just assumed it was very recent.

I just got off the phone with the bookstore, and yes, they told me that all the books and everything else that's available in the bookstore is currently open to the public.

Thanks mj412 for at least suggesting this. My gawd. I think it's a question of priorities more than anything else, for the person making the decision. If a woman who decided to go corps got pregnant, and it wasn't allowed in the corps, she had to decide about her commitment to the corps ... hey its a difficult decision, but if she wanted that baby, she still could have decided to go home and have it. God's still on the throne, even if one chose to break their corps commitment for something else, or go in the corps at a later date when the circumstances permitted it. I get what you're saying. ...

Whether it is ok or not is for the individual to decide ... whether or not the individual accepts responsibility for their own actions, or simply lays most or all of the blame on twi leaders. Personally, I've not layed all the blame on twi leaders ... as you well know ... because it seems rather obvious to me that it wasn't all their fault for difficult decisions made. So I guess we always disagree. But I don't think they were aiding and abetting murder, no matter what you think.

Since this is what YOU felt and was YOUR perception of things, then I will accept that as YOUR experience and testimony. But saying those things apply to others as well, goes overboard.Try to look at it this way: You say I've whitewashed and painted a rosey scenario of twi, that doesn't necessarily apply to others. ... ok, I see this as something similar, only the opposite. I see you as painting a exceedingly morbid view of twi, that doesn't necessarily apply to others.

"There You Go Again" - Ronald Reagan Saying there was no choice, is a lie. Or a misrepresentation. Or an exaggeration. Or Victim Mentality Propaganda. Whatever you call it, I don't buy it.

Also Glad that twi never taught that abortion is murder. .... something else that you insult and condemn your fellow brothers and sisters about .... murdering and aiding and abetting murder. Now THAT'S a sickly thought. Can't you see what you're doing? Your false accusations are very disturbing.

You seem to be saying here that folks' corps commitments were sick because they thought they were doing God's work and something for God's benefit, while all the while being recipients and perpetrators of abuse. My response to that is, you can say that about yourself, but not others. Others will decide for themselves what their corps commitments meant for and to God, and others .... but for you to paint that broad brushstroke on everyone is insulting. Not everyone thinks like you, thinks that the sum total of their corps commitment was giving and receiving abuse. Geeze, what a morbid view of things! And again, you falsely accuse me of lying, something you like to do, apparently. All I can say is, I'm very glad and thankful I don't think like you do. ...

I think by saying these things, you are insulting and demeaning a person's corps commitment. What do you know about others commitments to God? That was their choice and their life. I think a person has to decide for themselves, whether their commitment was for God's benefit, without you getting in their face that their commitment wasn't, or their commitment was sick. ...

Danny Danny, those words sound pretty extreme. In 1985, you were one of the most loving and kind persons I knew. What happened to you, bro? What's gotten into you?This is not the first time you falsely accuse me of engaging in idolatry. Why do you keep accusing me of that? And why do you accuse your brothers and sisters of idolatry when saying the corps was their idol? I suppose you're an expert on idolatry now? Just because folks have a different opinion than yourself and may not think like you, doesn't mean they are idolators.

I think it's wrong for you and Danny to think evil of other folks Corps commitments. You can talk that way about yourselves, but how dare you judge your brothers and sisters in what their heart was before God. Shame shame shame on you ...

Abigail It does seem to sound like Greasespot Wound Addiction, doesn't it? Ha.Nah, I'm not bitter about it at all. It took me about a year to get over the dismissal, but by PFAL '77, I was ok with it. I finally realized that the dismissal was my fault, for not living up to expected standards. It was tough to realize that, because of the added perception that others were getting a better deal than me, that those who also sinned were recipients of possible greater mercy from the powers that be. But at any rate, the facts are still the facts, present feelings notwithstanding ... those women were given a choice, something that sounds decent to me.

Shellon, I think I misunderstood; it sounded like you were calling me a child, cause I mentioned I screwed up. Sorry if I misunderstood.

rascal A person who disagrees with you, wholeheartedly. Shellon Thanks for the insult. Have a nice weekend, folks. I'm going record hunting. Until next time ...

Mike, if you and I can get on the BOD, we'd turn things around. How about putting all the PFAL segments on the net?

And so, what is the complaint? TWI gave these women an opportunity to stay in the Way Corps if they wanted, after screwing up. Sounds pretty charitable to me. March 7, 1976. I will remember that day as long as I live. That's the day I got dismissed from the 6th Corps, for screwing up. Dismissed. Good bye. So long. Don't let the door hit your butt too hard on the way out. And so, from my viewpoint, those women were given a choice, and they were treated decently. Opinions vary.

Looks like it's snowing outside.

Tom, I did offer the alternative view. So did mj412. If a single woman got pregnant and wanted to enter the single way corps program, she had two choices, get an abortion and enter the program, or not enter the corps program. It was not available for single women to go into the single way corps program having a baby with them. Women in that category had to make choices for themselves. It was a tough choice, given their circumstances, no question; but I suppose that's what happens when one gets pregnant out of wedlock. Bad, sad and unforeseen things happen. Maybe they thought that if a whole bunch of single women brought their babies with them, that wouldn't be good for the program or the volunteers themselves; that their priorities were different. So they didn't allow it, and those were the choices.

Kit Sober Can you be more specific? What deception and lies involving abortion are you referring to? Individual circumstances vary, but did it ever occur to you that maybe TWI sponsored the abortions because they wanted to offer an option to the woman involved? Give the woman a choice? Why does their (twi's) motive always have to be an evil one?

Interesting point, Mike. Thanks.

Tom Let's try to refrain from namecalling, shall we?Tom, simply put, I don't swallow whole some things that sound incredibly biased like some of rascal's posts, and sometimes, in those cases, attempt to present an opposing opinion. rascal's words and opinions are gospel now? Lighten up, ok? And if you've been observant, I'm not the only one on this thread that takes the viewpoint that abortion in twi was a choice of the woman who consented to it, no matter what any leader said or suggested. I stand by that viewpoint, because I think it's factual and true.

Sounds like a good idea.

I'd still like to hear what their take on it is, just so folks can know definitively. I think partial birth abortion borders on infanticide, so it might be worthwhile. Perhaps an innie could send them the article and ask what their take is on the paragraph about partial birth? I'll be happy to email the article to anyone in PDF format if anyone wants it.