oldiesman

Rascal, you are not a demon ... Happy Weekend, one and all! :)-->

Well, to be fair, I am willing to state across the board that everyone made some mistakes. :D-->

YES HE DOES. His name is Oakspear. Here's his quote: Why is a more trustworthy source wanted? Because he lied, he sinned, he transgressed. "Just because Wierwille taught it". Why is that? Is there another reason that I'm missing, or not quite understanding, why a more trustworthy source is desired? Please respond cause my moronic and dense braincells can't figure it out, I don't have ESP, I'm not Sylvia Browne. If not, I conclude that you Oakspear have thrown out the baby with the bathwater because of Wierwille's transgressions. Oakspear, I'm just going by what you've said, so if I'm wrong, please explain where I am.

The Prophetess Speaketh.Have you been taking lessons from Sylvia Browne?

Yes, I think that's right, as it is being applied here. The Leaven Principle, as I understand it being applied here, is "a little bit of bad makes the whole thing bad."I do not believe this. Here's basically what I stated before: The truths we learned in twi weren't tainted or twisted, but stand by themselves. You don't even need TWI today, to stand and believe these truths. Truth is truth. I believe the question should be, "is it the truth, or isn't it"?

Sky, I can't argue with that assessment. Thanks for your input. :)-->

Sky: The problem I had with the "the holy spirit is a guide unto all truth" belief is, (1) who's to say that it's "the holy spirit" that is really teaching you, and not your own intuition, or another man, and (2) You say "the holy spirit" is teaching you the truth, but what happens if what "the holy spirit teaches you" CONTRADICTS what the bible says, then where to you go from there? Do you negate the written word, and rather go with "what the holy spirit teaches you"? Moreover, what if "the holy spirit teaches me" something different than what "the holy spirit teaches you", and our teachings contradict each other. Ya see where that leaves us?

Rascal, if there's any joy in your life, I wouldn't know it, cause most of all you accentuate, like a repetitive battering ram, are the sins of Wierwille at the bot. ... Please do talk about your newfound joys and how one may obtain them, I'm all ears....

Rascal, I believe you are mistaken ...Search your feelings, you KNOW it to be true ...

Oakspear, because Wierwille has lied in his life, you throw out everything he ever taught, because everything is untrustworthy he taught, because Wierwille lied.Sounds to me like you, Oakspear, have abandoned the truths you learned in twi, because of Wierwille's sins. You say you're not a Christian anymore? You mean to tell me you haven't found Christianity outside of TWI? Christianity exists outside of twi from trustworthy sources, albeit, sinners as well. So I conclude you threw out the baby with the bathwater because of Wierwille's sins. Your reason: he lied. You prove my point, Oakspear.

Darrell, knowing that I'm a child of God, born again of God's spirit, heaven bound and all power of hell can't stop me from going, really helps me cause in my RC church experience I was wandering in darkness and didn't know that one simple truth. Knowing YOU are saved, helps me. Knowing that we are saved by God's graceful gift, not by works, helps me. Knowing that I can speak in tongues, helps me. Knowing my sonship rights, helps me. Knowing the goodness of God and the badness of the devil, helps me. Knowing that the bible is reliable and worthy of respect and examination, helps me. Knowing that the dead are not alive, helps me. Knowing that Jesus is the son of God and our Messiah, helps me. All these goodies and more were taught at twi-1.Folks who throw the above away and start over because of Wierwille's transgressions, have the right to do so. I choose a different path. Thanks for your input. :)-->

Coolwaters, ok I give up, what's the punchline now? I'm too tired to argue any more today, have a wonderful evening. :)-->

Coolwaters, the bible says a whole lot of things. If your mind is set only on trash, those scriptures that accentuate your mindset are the only scriptures that will mean anything to you. Hope you don't make it part of your heart ...

You can't stop talking about Wierwille's sins and transgressions. They dominate your thinking. ...

Rascal the ONLY scriptures that count in your book are the ones that give hefty judgments for sins of Wierwille and others.You ignore the other scriptures about grace, mercy and forgiveness. You like those condemning scriptures, cause they accentuate your finger-pointing agenda. Just remember, when you point your finger at someone, you point three back at yourself.

Coolwaters, you didn't strike me as engaging in insults and putdowns. You're letting your greasespot friends influence your judgment and now your just as critical and judgmental as they, apparently. Hope you don't take it to heart ...

In the context of this thread, they are one in the same. TRY to put them together ... Unless you believe that we weren't taught ANY truth in twi, well, that's a whole different ballgame. In that case, I'd say you are definitely mistaken ...

Yes it is the same. Some folks want to throw it all away and start over, irrespective of whether it is truth or not, because of Wierwille's transgressions. That is evident by some folks' responses. That's you, isn't it Rascal? Can't trust anything from twi, since such a horrible human being founded it? Can't admit twi did anything good for anyone, or taught truth, cause of Wierwille's sins? Only the evil means anything to you? You choose what you do, and keep denying that twi taught us principles of truth; it's your privilege.

Coolwaters, I think you're misapplying those scriptures. Gee you're bold as brass.

Be Happy, Abby. :)--> Floundering and dodging, bobbing and weaving..

Raf, it REALLY REALLY looks like you're taking twi's side in all of this. BE CAREFUL

Here's where I got that from:

I didn't say "anyone else" or "everyone else", I said some folks. Nice try, Oakspear. It looks to me like some of these folks expressing themselves on these threads have dumped every teaching twi had to offer, because of Wierwille's transgressions. The Leaven Principle, I guess. If that doesn't apply to you, Oakspear, it doesn't apply. I didn't suggest otherwise. That's up to you to admit or deny.

And therefore, we have to throw away everything we were taught in twi, and start over, right? Shaz, let's assume that Wierwille was psychotic. So what? It's virtually meaningless now. It still doesn't change the fact that PFAL and ooodles of other teachings of his and others can be accurately representing the true God. It is quite possible, and lots of folks still believe it.If you want to take each and every jot and tittle of his teachings and examine them to see if they make sense and are true, that's your right and privilege. Go ahead. I am not of the view that just because Wierwille said something, that it must be true, and therefore, is exempt from examination ... On the other hand, if some of his teachings are accepted as truth, I believe they stand alone and are truth alone irrespective of how he lived his life. In that case, he didn't use his best efforts to adhere to the teachings in practice and wasn't the man he knew he should be. But truth is still truth. If you or anyone else comes up with something that makes more sense than the truths we already received, I'm all ears. But saying Wierwille was psychotic is virtually meaningless at this point. Reminds me of something John Lynn said: we are free from Egypt, and "took the gold."

How is everyone defining "worship"? How does one know they are "worshipping" something, as opposed to loving, respecting, etc. etc.?