oldiesman

My involvement (and I know my whole family's involvement) was religious, so it was a religious group to me. I guess it all depends on who you talk to. Maybe some folks really do get involved and stay involved to reap worldly rewards. :)-->

That's RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIght!Oh Glowrie!

Hi Bob. It wasn't published after Victor Paul's death, it was published before and he was still around. I distinctly remember that, because twi was making available autographed copies for a time. I have mine autographed. :)-->

Hey check this out: Order My Steps But they got the description wrong, check out that last paragraph.

This isn't quite like PFAL Remember 1) Vhat is available 2) How to Receive 3) Vhat to do vith it after you GOTIT 4) Needs and Vants Parallel 5) God's Villingness = God's Ability :)-->

Cherished Child This is taught by John Schoenheit of CES. Not sure if he taught it (or believed it) during his stint with TWI.

Sounds like Pfal ...

Now where have I heard that before?It's deja-vu, all over again. -Yogi Berra

House Nowhere. But please keep in mind we are talking about this in context of the corps commitment, the greatest form of service and honor for the twi believer. The beliefs of twi leaders who believed that the way corps commitment was paramount, godly and sacred, certainly more important than keeping a fetus from an out-of-wedlock action, said those things. I understand it, because of the belief and environment that existed.It wasn't avaaaaaaaaail able to be a single mother in the corps, unless you went family corps. So those in that situation had 2 choices: get rid of your fruit, your personal property, abort your fetus and stay right with God and the corps, or go home, break your commitment with God and the corps, have your fruit and do your own thing. I can see a zealous corps leader/coordinator with that rationale. ...

I have to correct myself. Fear motivation isn't ALWAYS wrong. Remember the stowry of the young child who was told by its mother to stay away from the stove, otherwise you'll get burned? That's fear motivation. So I guess it does exist for a purpose sometimes. Want an example of fear motivation coming from God? Check this out:

mj412 I get what you're saying.twi didn't view removing a fetus (1-2 trimester) as murder, so folks reasoned the fetus was expendable. It wasn't alive, it was "potential" life. Potential life is not life. Certainly not nearly as important as one's corps commitment, which was paramount. Breaking of the corps commitment was a big, huge deal, bigger than a woman getting rid of her fruit, if it got in place of a greater fruit basket. I do think fear motivation is always wrong. In that light, I'm sorry we all had to endure that at one point or another. I think another one of mj's points is that fear motivation is all over ... I agree with that too ... it wasn't just present in twi, it's part of life and part of being with other human beings.

Long Gone Let me try to respond to this from another angle, a perspective that I think mj412 was trying to make all along, and one that takes most everything rascal said into account. This is a crude example, but I do this to get the point across. In the context of way world, the way corps program is the greatest commitment of service one can make. Its the word the word and nothing but the word, and in twi-world, movement of that word was paramount. The way corps was the vehicle to move that word, so the way corps was the most important thing. It was the ultimate in godliness. A woman who makes a commitment to go corps, has made one of the most godly commitments there is. A commitment to move the Word, in the greatest way available. But something happens. She gets pregnant, and that pregnancy interferes with her corps commitment. Along comes a corps leader, who has been taught all long that a pregnancy, a fetus, is "her fruit". He doesn't really care about her fruit. Let's look at it as a bag of jewels. "Her" bag of jewels. So the corps leader says to the corps volunteer, "you need to get rid of that bag of jewels", because its keeping you from your corps commitment. "Don't allow that bag of jewels to stop you from receiving a greater treasure, that of your commitment and service to God." Keeping that bag of jewels is being selfish. Get rid of that bag of jewels...God will bless you if you keep your commitment to Him. So was it evil intent to look at it that the corps leader was forcing, coercing, pressurizing the corps volunteer to abandon their own personal bag of jewels, for a greater treasure, the greatest treasure of twi? I don't think so. It's all a question of one perspective having a higher urgency, a higher importance, than another. Crude as that may seem now. I was watching tv last night and there was a "Practice" episode that I previously recorded. On it was about Rebecca getting hurt because of a bomb being blown up in the office. Rebecca gets rushed to emergency, on her death bed. The doctor wants to give Rebecca a blood transfusion, to keep her alive. Rebecca's mother, a Jehovah's Witness, says "no", Rebecca is a Jehovah's Witness and she wouldn't want a blood transfusion. "But Rebecca will probably die if Rebecca doesn't get one", Bobby says. The mother still says no, it's more important to carry out what she thinks is God will, even though that probably will result in Rebecca's death. Was the mother committing evil? Not according to her religious belief, which was more important, and took precedence. "Intent". I think that's been mj412's point all along.

You might be correct. But since her name and actions were used and published in "The Cult That Snapped", I think she's fair game. If not, the Greasespot Gods will intervene... um besides, it was no insult, Kim Cattrall is hot ...

mj412 I feel similar. "The buck stops here." And if there was something I didn't like, that wouldn't be changed, I always knew where the door was and took that path at times.

"Bless Your Heart" :)-->

Orson Welles as Christopher Geer Orson Bean as Johnny Townsend Ricardo Montalban as Ricardo Cabellero :)-->

Oakspear I think what you ask might be impossible. But I see where you're coming from. :)-->

Paul Sorvino as Uncle Harry :)-->

Ronald Reagan as Dr. Wierwille Red Skelton as Howard Allen Michael Landon as Don Wierwille William Shatner as Craig Martindale Yul Brenner as Ermal Owens Ellen DeGeneres as Donna Martindale Robert Redford as Bo Reahard :)-->

Garth No, I'm not saying Uncle Hairy is a communist wannabe. Just suggesting that Uncle Hairy's statements may be applied to all religions, not just twi, if one wishes to insult its participants. Just about all he said may be present in all religions if that's the way one looks at it. I've seen those things present in my older one (Roman Catholicism). For example, one may, if one wishes to be mean, make a comparison that a participant receiving communion religiously every week is like a junkie getting his fix. What would both be without it? Not a big deal, just food for thought.

I vanted vone of those too...

MJ412 You seem to be making a distinction between "being" forced, and "feeling" forced. One implies actual physical force, from a perpetrator. The other implies feeling pressure and force, mental pressure, as one might have in difficult decision making. I guess to some there is little distinction, but I think there is one, and see where you're coming from.

Vierville Var Print GI Joe D-Day Collection Vierville Book

I always wanted one of those Vierville towels. Maybe I'll check ebay. :)-->

Pat I guess you are. :D--> I have the recording on my cell phone voicemail. If you tell me the best way to make a copy, I'll be happy to make the copy and send you the tape, or whatever works best.