oldiesman

Raf PLEASE STOP taking twi's side in this. Else you may END UP HERE....

I'd like to know how much mooola they got. ;)-->

Take heed, thou who excuse and deny past evil, thou who still adhere to Wierwilles Doctrine, thou shalt meet the same fate! Hear the sounds of your eternal condemnation! Hear It and Take Heed!

Forever Condemned To Darkness Take heed, thou who dismiss past evil, thou shalt meet the same fate!

Here's where we differ on this Rascal.Here's what I believe: when Wierwille was walking by the flesh, he was walking by the flesh. When he was walking by the spirit, he was walking by the spirit. YOU seem to be of the viewpoint that it was impossible for Wierwille to receive anything from the true God, or communicate anything from the true God, because Wierwille walked by the flesh too much. I do not believe this ... I think this is the same old crap about God not dealing with anyone unclean ... God works with sinners ... if HE didn't, I think we're all in a heap of doo dooo.

Wierwille's sex club and his other sins didn't stop God and his word from moving in twi-1. Yes, my whole family appreciated from those who moved the word in twi-1, along with a whole lot of other folks. The fact that those secret evil things happened doesn't change the blessings that happened, and I'm not going to renounce the blessings of God working in people's lives. Those are factual, historical realities. The fact that you keep bringing the evil up and can't stop doing it, only proves that that's all your concerned about. That's all you care to remember. Rascal you certainly have a right to dwell on whatever you want, just don't expect me to follow your example.

Rascal, if anyone was relaying their personal testimony on these threads, and I called them a liar, then please produce the thread where I directly called anyone a liar while writing personal testimony, and I will publicly apologize. If you can't produce anything, then kindly be quiet.If memory serves, I do remember once that I disbelieved someone who relayed personal testimony, and later apologized because someone stated I wasn't there, so how would I know? Words to that effect. But that's not what we're talking about here, and the fact you should bring something up that's that old, reveals your heart for past trash ... I will apologize to YOU, Rascal, for calling you a false accuser, when you apologize to ME, for various and sundry things, including "attacks on the innocent".

Hi Danny! No, I haven't called many liars about what happened to them! That's ridiculous, how could I call someone a liar about something that happened to them, if I wasn't there?I HAVE called people false accusers, when they falsely accuse me of something. When someone has falsely accused me of something, I guess that does include lying, so yeah, when I am falsely accused, the person doing the false accusing should put away lying, as well. I HAVE said I do not believe everything I read on the internet. Do YOU believe everything you read on the internet? Ya know, perhaps I should just start calling people liars when they type something. After all, that's what I'm being accused of, calling people liars, and maybe I should just do it, so that these folks who are falsely accusing me of calling people liars will get some kicks ...

Words of Wisdom from Brother Johniam

What The Hay, thanks for your posts, you've got wisdom and understanding ... :)-->

Thanks for the support, Johniam and What The Hay. Goey: Goey, to answer your question, my baby is the same as your baby. But, when I make statements similar to saying that I saw and experienced "the baby" in twi-1, that's when I get the most hassles from some people, and responses like: -and- -or- Goey you said in a previous post that twi-1 was rotten to the core. I didn't see that, and what I'm saying is, I, and yes, WE (those I fellowshipped with and saw), got the baby in twi-1. I wasn't the only one there who experienced the baby. I think back and just can't believe that folks I fellowshipped with were just impersonating love, joy, peace, and all those goodies; that they weren't really real. So if you think I'm speaking for others here, yeah, that's what I'm doing, cause I witnessed it. But I do "get it" that some folks experienced horrible things and therefore can't or don't want to remember anything about the goodies, if they experienced them at all. I agree with what GeorgeStGeorges said:

When did I say her personal testimony was false? Her personal testimony is her personal testimony. How can I claim it's false if I wasn't there to witness it for myself? If that's what she said happened to her, that's her testimony that happened to her.I will say that I don't believe everything I read on the internet, that's true. But that's a far cry from calling someone a liar. Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

I never called you or anyone a liar. Produce the quote please. I HAVE called you a false accuser, which is exactly what you are doing right now.

When did I ever write that:(1) in my world it was always all daisies and goodness and light; (2) there were never problems; (3) the experiences of others don't count; (4) others are liars? You are putting words in my mouth, and your namecalling is unnecessary.

Wordwolf, I'm not arguing against it, but I mentioned in a previous statement that I thought the verse was being misapplied by some. I read it in context as a present tense warning to remove those who cause trouble in the church. The way I see it, I get hassled so much because I don't think like some others. Period.Wordwolf, if you read attempts by me to silence personal testimonies, please offer examples of same.

Awwww Rascal, don't feel bad. I'll be ok, really. :)-->

Rascal, speak for yourself please.

Would you then presume you dumped Proverbs a long time ago, because Solomon was a man of the flesh? You know he was a sex addict, no better than Wierwille. He had 700 some odd wives? concubines? whatever. Solomon was a man of the flesh if there ever was one. So then I guess that disqualifies any spiritual workings in his life, according to The Rascal Principle?

The fact that twi-1 as we know it came to naught, doesn't change the truths taught and assimilated there. They are ever enduring, for those who choose to stand fast on them. Those who choose to throw them away can do that if they wish. However, I don't think you can throw away eternal life. :)-->

Alfakat, your rebuttal proves my point. The godly elements of twi-1 just doesn't matter. I think the folks who genuinely feel this way, should speak for themselves only because they can't speak for others who don't feel as they do, and certainly not me.

Goey, yes, this is how I read what some folks are saying when they talk about the Leaven Principle as it relates to twi. I think you're misstating what the Leaven Principle means and what folks think about it.Here's what Excathedra quoted that article said: THAT is the Leaven Principle, the baby is tainted/spoiled/no good. I think some folks are so angry and disappointed at VPW because of his transgressions, they've thrown out the baby with the bathwater because, as Pat described it, "most of the time, the crap is so integral in the baby so that even though you have thrown out the bath water, you still have a crap filled baby." Do you really believe some folks would have the problems they do with twi, had Wierwille lived a devout life? Let's take all the spin away, and answer that one question. Some folks may not say outright they believe "everything" about twi was bad, but, they may just as well say it, because that's the way I read their writings. That's why, when I bring up some "good things" about twi-1, why do some folks get so angry and defensive and engage in sarcasm, namecalling and put-downs? I think because they don't really care what good happened and don't want to hear any of it because in their mind, it doesn't matter what good existed. To them, the evil is the only thing that has any real meaning. I don't think I am misrepresenting and lying about those who think this way. It appears obvious to me by the way some people react to what I have to say that this is the way of things.

The simple answer is yes, with the proviso that some of what twi taught/teaches is wrongly divided. Stated another way, I don't think everything twi taught was/is rightly divided, but that part that was/is, is "the Word".

Oakspear, I think ALL of the posters who have been hurt by the evil works of VPW and LCM and others, and who later have renounced twi, fall in this category. If not, then why all the harsh words about VPW and TWI and people feeling like they were deceived, suckered, and cheated? Of course this is about that.I suggest you go back and read GeorgeStGeorge's last post, it's pretty powerful, and does help me see why some folks are still so angry.

Coolwaters, I think you've made some excellent comments on this thread, particularly about the one body. Please excuse my silence, and know that I'm keenly aware of your presence, and considering your thoughtful viewpoints. And thanks for not participating in the namecalling or put-downs. Actually my silence has to do with making a decision not to respond to everything written but trying to have reflective thought about it; and you've written some pretty intense food for thought. Others have too, and I think it's going to take me a while to digest it all. :)-->