oldiesman

Sky, I can't argue with that assessment. Thanks for your input. :)-->

Sky: The problem I had with the "the holy spirit is a guide unto all truth" belief is, (1) who's to say that it's "the holy spirit" that is really teaching you, and not your own intuition, or another man, and (2) You say "the holy spirit" is teaching you the truth, but what happens if what "the holy spirit teaches you" CONTRADICTS what the bible says, then where to you go from there? Do you negate the written word, and rather go with "what the holy spirit teaches you"? Moreover, what if "the holy spirit teaches me" something different than what "the holy spirit teaches you", and our teachings contradict each other. Ya see where that leaves us?

Rascal, if there's any joy in your life, I wouldn't know it, cause most of all you accentuate, like a repetitive battering ram, are the sins of Wierwille at the bot. ... Please do talk about your newfound joys and how one may obtain them, I'm all ears....

Rascal, I believe you are mistaken ...Search your feelings, you KNOW it to be true ...

Oakspear, because Wierwille has lied in his life, you throw out everything he ever taught, because everything is untrustworthy he taught, because Wierwille lied.Sounds to me like you, Oakspear, have abandoned the truths you learned in twi, because of Wierwille's sins. You say you're not a Christian anymore? You mean to tell me you haven't found Christianity outside of TWI? Christianity exists outside of twi from trustworthy sources, albeit, sinners as well. So I conclude you threw out the baby with the bathwater because of Wierwille's sins. Your reason: he lied. You prove my point, Oakspear.

Darrell, knowing that I'm a child of God, born again of God's spirit, heaven bound and all power of hell can't stop me from going, really helps me cause in my RC church experience I was wandering in darkness and didn't know that one simple truth. Knowing YOU are saved, helps me. Knowing that we are saved by God's graceful gift, not by works, helps me. Knowing that I can speak in tongues, helps me. Knowing my sonship rights, helps me. Knowing the goodness of God and the badness of the devil, helps me. Knowing that the bible is reliable and worthy of respect and examination, helps me. Knowing that the dead are not alive, helps me. Knowing that Jesus is the son of God and our Messiah, helps me. All these goodies and more were taught at twi-1.Folks who throw the above away and start over because of Wierwille's transgressions, have the right to do so. I choose a different path. Thanks for your input. :)-->

Coolwaters, ok I give up, what's the punchline now? I'm too tired to argue any more today, have a wonderful evening. :)-->

Coolwaters, the bible says a whole lot of things. If your mind is set only on trash, those scriptures that accentuate your mindset are the only scriptures that will mean anything to you. Hope you don't make it part of your heart ...

You can't stop talking about Wierwille's sins and transgressions. They dominate your thinking. ...

Rascal the ONLY scriptures that count in your book are the ones that give hefty judgments for sins of Wierwille and others.You ignore the other scriptures about grace, mercy and forgiveness. You like those condemning scriptures, cause they accentuate your finger-pointing agenda. Just remember, when you point your finger at someone, you point three back at yourself.

Coolwaters, you didn't strike me as engaging in insults and putdowns. You're letting your greasespot friends influence your judgment and now your just as critical and judgmental as they, apparently. Hope you don't take it to heart ...

In the context of this thread, they are one in the same. TRY to put them together ... Unless you believe that we weren't taught ANY truth in twi, well, that's a whole different ballgame. In that case, I'd say you are definitely mistaken ...

Yes it is the same. Some folks want to throw it all away and start over, irrespective of whether it is truth or not, because of Wierwille's transgressions. That is evident by some folks' responses. That's you, isn't it Rascal? Can't trust anything from twi, since such a horrible human being founded it? Can't admit twi did anything good for anyone, or taught truth, cause of Wierwille's sins? Only the evil means anything to you? You choose what you do, and keep denying that twi taught us principles of truth; it's your privilege.

Coolwaters, I think you're misapplying those scriptures. Gee you're bold as brass.

Be Happy, Abby. :)--> Floundering and dodging, bobbing and weaving..

Raf, it REALLY REALLY looks like you're taking twi's side in all of this. BE CAREFUL

Here's where I got that from:

I didn't say "anyone else" or "everyone else", I said some folks. Nice try, Oakspear. It looks to me like some of these folks expressing themselves on these threads have dumped every teaching twi had to offer, because of Wierwille's transgressions. The Leaven Principle, I guess. If that doesn't apply to you, Oakspear, it doesn't apply. I didn't suggest otherwise. That's up to you to admit or deny.

And therefore, we have to throw away everything we were taught in twi, and start over, right? Shaz, let's assume that Wierwille was psychotic. So what? It's virtually meaningless now. It still doesn't change the fact that PFAL and ooodles of other teachings of his and others can be accurately representing the true God. It is quite possible, and lots of folks still believe it.If you want to take each and every jot and tittle of his teachings and examine them to see if they make sense and are true, that's your right and privilege. Go ahead. I am not of the view that just because Wierwille said something, that it must be true, and therefore, is exempt from examination ... On the other hand, if some of his teachings are accepted as truth, I believe they stand alone and are truth alone irrespective of how he lived his life. In that case, he didn't use his best efforts to adhere to the teachings in practice and wasn't the man he knew he should be. But truth is still truth. If you or anyone else comes up with something that makes more sense than the truths we already received, I'm all ears. But saying Wierwille was psychotic is virtually meaningless at this point. Reminds me of something John Lynn said: we are free from Egypt, and "took the gold."

How is everyone defining "worship"? How does one know they are "worshipping" something, as opposed to loving, respecting, etc. etc.?

WHATEVER anyone says about possible idolatry in TWI, goes double, triple, quadruple, for the Roman Catholic church. Whatever evils TWI has done, the RC church beats them 10 times over.

If Boston wins it all, I think the Yanks would be exonerated cause the curse is lifted. If Boston doesn't, the Yanks really really choked, and need a real shake up. Keep these: Matsui Olerud Sheffield Mussina Everyone else should go including Torre, and especially the most overrated player in the game, Alex Rodriguez.

You all know this already but here's how I see it: worship of the bible is like worshipping Jesus, by twi's rationale. There is no difference. The bible is the "written word". Jesus is "the word in the flesh". They are both "the word." TWI always taught that the written word takes the place of the absent Christ. Christ is not here in person, so the bible is here to take his place. We are to respect the bible as treat it as God's Word, just as if Jesus were here speaking it. Doesn't matter who speaks it, it's God's Word. I do think a case can be made that twi worships the bible ... but whether that's idolatry is another matter, since "God and his Word" are one in the same (John 1:1).

Shaz, was Wierwille a psycho? ha ha... I think he was something of an enigma, someone who speaks God's Word, then practices these secret disgusting things behind the scenes. Looks like he walked by the flesh and made a habit out of it, and should have had more control over himself. (sometimes I feel that way about myself too). Maybe there's something to the fact that he had all that power, and nobody to keep him in check? I am reminded of the words of Lord Acton: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I prefer to keep what things already make sense, then if someone comes along with a better or more accurate truth, I go with that. It simply doesn't make sense, to me anyway, for me to throw out what already makes sense, unless something better comes along to replace it.Thanks for your sharing. :)-->

There's no doubt in my mind that Wierwille's evil works caused some folks to get hurt. ... There's no doubt in my mind that Wierwille's good works caused some folks to get help. ...