oldiesman

Best I can come up with right now is, if they're worthy of scorn and condemnation, that's God's judgment and vengence; but if I follow Ephesians Chapter 4, there's no option there for me to keep scorning and condemning. I am asked not to keep that mindset but the precedent there is to forgive and be merciful. Also says to get rid of your wrath, before the sun goes down ...This way seems to be more profitable and godly than having a mindset of scorn and condemnation. Look at what Jesus said when they were killing him. Father forgive them ... wow what an example.

Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. -------------------------- It's just the way VPW said it, when he said it's easy to forgive someone else when you bear in mind what God forgave YOU for. There seems to be a lot more biblical precedent to forgive, than the other way around, since we are all sinners and God forgave us and who are we to have a continuous critical mindset? That's my take on it. ...

Research Geek, I'm with you 100% on this. Jesus also said that a person's sins will not be forgiven, unless they forgive others' sins. Only problem is, here at Greasespot, forgiveness is viewed by some very aggressive posters as whitewashing, and mitigating twi damages.I'm with you though, if it means anything. :)-->

I do believe The Curse has already been lifted, and tonite will be the final manifestation of it. Boston is going to win it all tonite. On the other hand, I've been told I'm carnal, so who am I to say?

Ok Rascal, I'll admit to being intolerant of some viewpoints. Rascal, are you up for a challenge? From this point forward, let's both try to be tolerant of each others views, and not ridicule. Are you game?

Rascal, twi is still there, CES, CFF, other offshoots; that seems to be lots of folks who are around still eating sh_t. As pointed out earlier by someone, I think it was Johniam, you're doing exactly what TWI used to do and maybe still does... tendency to condemn others for their beliefs thinking that YOURS has to be the best and others are way off. Why not live and let live? twi believers and offshoots and others are believers just like you; trying to live the best they can. ...

The Curse must be lifted and now everything is going Boston's way ....all those years are being made up for. That's what I believe ...

I'm a lifelong yankee fan and AM rooting for Boston. It makes the defeat more palatable to think that this "was Boston's year." If Boston doesn't win, it's humiliating for the Yanks, the ultimate humiliation losing 4 in a row to a losing team... Looks like Boston is going to win and the Curse is lifted ... good for them ...

Hello folks! Did ya miss me? My employers love me Danny. :)--> dmiller: dmiller, the Brownie Principle doesn't apply to what we are discussing. Let's say the truth represents all the "goodies" in your mix, those good ingredients, and the doggie doo represents VPW sins, or VPW errors, or both.So you're saying that the goodies are inextricably tangled in with the baddies? Says who? Why can't we bake a cake with the goodies only? (This is what JAL means when he says to eat the fish and spit out the bones) duh? Besides, my reading of I Cor. 5, talks about present tense removal of the bad leaven so that we may have a new lump. This appears to be speaking to Christians to remove the bad seed among them, so that there may be a new lump. 1Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 1Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 1Cr 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed, 1Cr 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth. 1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. Lemme repeat this one: 1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth. So I guess it's possible to still keep the feast and purge out the doggoe doo? Let's keep the feast, but without the doggie doo. That's what the Leaven Principle means to me. I think some of you folks are misapplying this idea, cause your just too hung up on the sins of Wierwille and the bot that you can't get past that and therefore justify throwing out everything, even truth. Go ahead, if that's what you want ... But ya can't blame CES, CFF, or anyone else, for wanting to keep the goodies. Let's make that cake dmiller ... mmmmmmmmmmmm :)-->

Rascal, you are not a demon ... Happy Weekend, one and all! :)-->

Well, to be fair, I am willing to state across the board that everyone made some mistakes. :D-->

YES HE DOES. His name is Oakspear. Here's his quote: Why is a more trustworthy source wanted? Because he lied, he sinned, he transgressed. "Just because Wierwille taught it". Why is that? Is there another reason that I'm missing, or not quite understanding, why a more trustworthy source is desired? Please respond cause my moronic and dense braincells can't figure it out, I don't have ESP, I'm not Sylvia Browne. If not, I conclude that you Oakspear have thrown out the baby with the bathwater because of Wierwille's transgressions. Oakspear, I'm just going by what you've said, so if I'm wrong, please explain where I am.

The Prophetess Speaketh.Have you been taking lessons from Sylvia Browne?

Yes, I think that's right, as it is being applied here. The Leaven Principle, as I understand it being applied here, is "a little bit of bad makes the whole thing bad."I do not believe this. Here's basically what I stated before: The truths we learned in twi weren't tainted or twisted, but stand by themselves. You don't even need TWI today, to stand and believe these truths. Truth is truth. I believe the question should be, "is it the truth, or isn't it"?

Sky, I can't argue with that assessment. Thanks for your input. :)-->

Sky: The problem I had with the "the holy spirit is a guide unto all truth" belief is, (1) who's to say that it's "the holy spirit" that is really teaching you, and not your own intuition, or another man, and (2) You say "the holy spirit" is teaching you the truth, but what happens if what "the holy spirit teaches you" CONTRADICTS what the bible says, then where to you go from there? Do you negate the written word, and rather go with "what the holy spirit teaches you"? Moreover, what if "the holy spirit teaches me" something different than what "the holy spirit teaches you", and our teachings contradict each other. Ya see where that leaves us?

Rascal, if there's any joy in your life, I wouldn't know it, cause most of all you accentuate, like a repetitive battering ram, are the sins of Wierwille at the bot. ... Please do talk about your newfound joys and how one may obtain them, I'm all ears....

Rascal, I believe you are mistaken ...Search your feelings, you KNOW it to be true ...

Oakspear, because Wierwille has lied in his life, you throw out everything he ever taught, because everything is untrustworthy he taught, because Wierwille lied.Sounds to me like you, Oakspear, have abandoned the truths you learned in twi, because of Wierwille's sins. You say you're not a Christian anymore? You mean to tell me you haven't found Christianity outside of TWI? Christianity exists outside of twi from trustworthy sources, albeit, sinners as well. So I conclude you threw out the baby with the bathwater because of Wierwille's sins. Your reason: he lied. You prove my point, Oakspear.

Darrell, knowing that I'm a child of God, born again of God's spirit, heaven bound and all power of hell can't stop me from going, really helps me cause in my RC church experience I was wandering in darkness and didn't know that one simple truth. Knowing YOU are saved, helps me. Knowing that we are saved by God's graceful gift, not by works, helps me. Knowing that I can speak in tongues, helps me. Knowing my sonship rights, helps me. Knowing the goodness of God and the badness of the devil, helps me. Knowing that the bible is reliable and worthy of respect and examination, helps me. Knowing that the dead are not alive, helps me. Knowing that Jesus is the son of God and our Messiah, helps me. All these goodies and more were taught at twi-1.Folks who throw the above away and start over because of Wierwille's transgressions, have the right to do so. I choose a different path. Thanks for your input. :)-->

Coolwaters, ok I give up, what's the punchline now? I'm too tired to argue any more today, have a wonderful evening. :)-->

Coolwaters, the bible says a whole lot of things. If your mind is set only on trash, those scriptures that accentuate your mindset are the only scriptures that will mean anything to you. Hope you don't make it part of your heart ...

You can't stop talking about Wierwille's sins and transgressions. They dominate your thinking. ...

Rascal the ONLY scriptures that count in your book are the ones that give hefty judgments for sins of Wierwille and others.You ignore the other scriptures about grace, mercy and forgiveness. You like those condemning scriptures, cause they accentuate your finger-pointing agenda. Just remember, when you point your finger at someone, you point three back at yourself.

Coolwaters, you didn't strike me as engaging in insults and putdowns. You're letting your greasespot friends influence your judgment and now your just as critical and judgmental as they, apparently. Hope you don't take it to heart ...