oldiesman

Belle, yes I enjoyed it..I like both books, but must also recommend the second book to folks who think the first book is gospel. He did a good job of challenging false assumptions.

Yes you may :)-->

Belle, I will try to summarize a serious answer for you.I think Woodrow's second book "The Babylon Connection?" refutes many surmisings of Hislop, chiefly Hislops belief that the doctrines of the R.C. church "in all essential respects, have been derived from Babylon". Here's the last paragraph of the introduction, which pretty much summarizes the book: Some of the things he said in Babylon Mystery Religion that he challenges in the second book are the following: assumptions about Nimrod and Semiramis in their connection to the R.C. church mixing biblical stories with mythology mixing the Babylonian religion with Roman Catholicism obelisks vs. godly monuments that Mary Worship is really Semiramis Worship pagan titles applied to Mary that celebacy of priests has Babylon origin assumptions about Tammuz and his relation to R.C. church that the cross is about honoring Tammuz not Jesus the round communion wafer has pagan origins round R.C. symbols have pagan origins lighting of candles has pagan origins use of oil has pagan origins use of I.H.S. came from paganism use of fish symbol came from paganism papal mitre honors fish-god Dagon black garments have pagan origin papal procession comes from paganism papal scepter comes from paganism use of relics really honor Nimrod use of Christmas tree as pagan worship use of Easter eggs as pagan worship He makes the sound conclusion that just because a custom or symbol used today might be similar to that which was used in paganism, doesn't mean it's identical or representative of paganism. He rightly concludes simply: Now having said all that, there are plenty of R.C. practices and customs and relevant points in Babylon Mystery Religion that he DOES NOT address, or condemn, in the second book and doesn't offer any biblical evidence to the contrary. I have to assume then that he agrees with his first book, on these points, some of which are the following: Mary worship praying to saints use of indulgences paying for prayers was Peter the first Pope? papal immorality are Popes infallible? the Inhuman Inquisition Lord's Over God's Heritage An Unmarried Priesthood The Mass Three Days and Three Nights

God showed VPW these things via men of God scattered across the continent. His PFAL books say he learned from men of God scattered across the continent. I never heard he got PFAL independent of people. Maybe that's what you thought at one time?

HCW, you're black? uh oh... Just kidding bro, thx... :)-->

Belle, it seems like he converted to Roman Catholicism and then repudiated lots of what he proved in the first place. ha ha The way I see "The Babylon Connection?", he repudiates his "surmisings"... the Babylon Connection...the connection to evil...such things like that. I think maybe some Roman Catholic took him out to an dark alleyway and broke his thumbs or something....

Babylon Mystery Religion.Hey that brought out some good points.... it just went a little too far, in some of its surmisings, which was why I think he repudiated it later as being connected to Babylon...

Oh by the way, the books "Myth of the Six Million" and "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" were published by an outfit called "The Noontide Press". They are the Battlestar Gallactica of controversial no-no books. Check here: Noontide Press

It's really up to each individual how far they want to go with this information and these books. In one sense, I'm glad we learned about these things because they give us information about groups and entities that are not necessarily working in our best interests. "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was like that in that it provided us information about these large financial institutions and their goals. I'm sort of glad that there was some information out there that alerted us to who wants to control all the loot.But it's also fodder for the smear campaignists and victim mentality propagandists, which was why twi probably should have stayed away from it. ----------------------------------- Back in 1973 after I first took PFAL, I was given a twi bookstore list. On it was something interesting called "A Law Course For The Active Patriot", which could be gotten from another source other than twi. I ordered it, got it in mail, and looked it over. I was stunned. It WAS white supremist literature! They said the real meaning of the word ADAM was "white man", and so forth! I said to myself "this can't be" and immediately wrote a letter to Milford Bowen, the head of the bookstore at that time, with a photocopy of the offensive material and complaining about its contents. Shortly thereafter, the source was removed from the bookstore list. Now I'm very sure that had TWI actually been a white supremist group, that little item would have been left on the bookstore list for all to absorb. What some attribute to white supremacy alliances just doesn't wash; it could be something simple as shoddy research work. They didn't do their homework...didn't plan ahead...didn't have wisdom in these areas.

It's not all that simple to just connect the dots, and think you have the truth. You need a lot more evidence than that to prove something. Problem is, there are peoples in this world who love to label folks who don't subsribe to their agendas, "anti-semitic", "white supremist", "homephobe", etc. Such is the case with books like "The Thirteenth Tribe", "Done Dare Call It Conspiracy", "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", etc., all books sold at one time by TWI. They MUST subscribe to EVERYTHING those books say, right? Wrong. Part of all smear campaigns is to malign those who don't follow a certain train of thought. For example, a public figure who doesn't support Israel and says so publically, for whatever reason is labelled anti-semitic by the Anti Defamation League. Doesn't matter what the facts are, they are labelled and forever maligned. This labelling and maligning is a very powerful technique to smear individuals and groups. I think VPW and TWI are being falsely maligned here. The most they are guilty of is lack of wisdom in having these books in the bookstore. It was a mistake; these books probably offended some who they were trying to win over and had really nothing to do with the purity of scriptures. They should have stayed out of politics. More later...I actually have work this morning!

Steve Lortz, it could be a simple thing like incompetence as well. Remember "all without exception" and "all without distinction"? In our orgasmic spiritual bliss, none of us bothered to correct that which made no sense...Thanks for the teaching. :)-->

The Newstates Constitution was a real document. The organizers and planners of this document were real. Doesn't hurt to be informed, which is what we were.Check these out: Newstates Review Another Review Newstates Constitution

All together now .... IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIt's not by works of righteousness, but by His grace alone..It's not by works of righteousness, but by His grace alone.. It's not by works of righteousness, but by His grace alone.. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I am complete in Him...halelujah Lord... :)-->

If you believe something in the Koran to be the truth, you are free to share it on an opinion page such as this one, which is open to the free exchange of ideas, irrespective of whether anyone else believes what you are saying.Now if a persons opinions on scripture or the Koran are not allowed, then that's an entirely different stow-ree. But such is not the case here and we don't always base what we post on others beliefs, likes or dislikes.

Agreed. And your point is?

Which may be why a good many remain in unbelief? But it sounds to me like you're just trying to water down the scriptures, or perhaps explain salvation is attainable by some other way. John 14:6 is pretty strong but I still believe it's the truth.

This is God's Plan, not mine. John 14:6

Abigail, I get your point, thank you. But I was referring to the folks who believe the Messiah hasn't arrived yet. I know there are Jews for Jesus too. I have had discussions about Christ with Jews, with little believing in Jesus on the part of the ones I spoke with. No matter. But a person who is still waiting for the Messiah must also assume that Jesus was either delusional, a liar, or both. Not a very flattering view. One can only hope that these folks will believe Jesus is the Messiah at the White Throne Judgement, when he's up there, and they're down there.

Steve, perhaps this is not the topic for this thread, though I'm always open to giving your accusations an ear.Love, oldiesman

Yeah I read it and she offers no real proof other than her own accusative mindset against VP and Liberty Lobby.We went over this several months back. Willis Carto the founder of Liberty Lobby was represented by lawyer Mark Lane in the famous "Hunt v. Liberty Lobby" case. Mr. Lane, an accomplished Jewish lawyer who wrote a few books about the JFK assassination, had some pretty nice things to say about Carto. So who should we believe, Sunesis who didn't know Carto from Adam, or Mr. Lane? I will be happy to re-type what Lane wrote about Carto if anyone cares... Besides, I don't need to know anything about Carto to know VP wasn't a White Supremist. Such nonsense.

Steve Lortz, I just read Chapter 11, and I guess this is where the Christians get the idea that the Jews will be saved, cause it says it right there in verse 26. I guess they believe all Jews are the same as Israel in that verse?But I still don't get it. One can believe Jesus is a bastard child, an imposter, not the Messiah, totally reject him, and still be saved? Gee, that sure IS a departure from PFAL...

A good point Jonny. The tribe of Judah was chosen by God to bring forth the Messiah. But today, it means nothing without Christ.

Because Whicthor Vierville was a Nazi.Just kidding. I think he wanted it in the bookstore so that we could read another viewpoint on this topic.

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