oldiesman

"Don't pray for prosperity if you don't tithe"

"Tithing is the minimum financial, health and accident insurance" "Tithing brings wings to life" "9/10 with Gods Blessings goes a lot further than 10/10 without Gods Blessings"

Could be something as simple as adhering to a bible verse:1Cr 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed.... I mean after all, they are bible believers, right? heh heh heh

Good observation, but I knew POP was trash back when I read the asinine stuff about Don Wierwille. It's pretty hard to believe that folks could believe that nonsense but it just goes to show how hypnotizing Wierwille Worship had become.

I'm willing to wager that if I phoned them right now, TWI would say that one may have a mortgage and attend their ACS. But I think it really goes way beyond that and has nothing to do with that. I think the bottom line is, they want only the most committed and loyal people taking their advanced classes; with or without mortgages. Back in 1978 when I first took the advanced class, I hadn't been attending twig for 6 months, when I applied and was approved to take the advanced class. See how times have changed -- no way that'd be possible today.

Steve, when you make analogies comparing human beings to animals, and other offensive, repeated analogies like that, you are being insulting and offensive, whatever your true intentions are. Please knock it off.

No Belle, I don't. I never knew that policies to attend their advanced classes whimsically varied from area to area, and leader to leader. Doesn't make much sense, and doesn't jive with my experiences. But then again, I haven't been involved with them for over 10 years; but still seems too whimsical. Steve, I see you haven't abandoned your name calling and insults. Surely you can make your points without it?

Belle, "renting to own" is technically not debt, but "renting" IS? I thought renting wasn't debt either? All I asked is if they have a policy or not. If you're correct and they don't, then someone suggesting that folks couldn't go to the ACS simply because they had a mortgage is incorrect information. We want accurate information, don't we? No, I don't want to phone them on this, thank you very much.

OnionEater, I don't understand what the official policy is. Wishing for Freedom said mortgages are not allowed, but now you're saying mortgages are. What's up?

JM, if you do decide to keep going to the fellowships, I'd love to hear what they're teaching, and your thoughts and experiences. It seems some folks who post here see only continuous evil in everything about TWI. But some of us don't. So feel free to share, if you like. If you can't stomach the responses, you can always go private with one of us if you want.

Perhaps. JM, back in my early days of TWI, like the 1970's and 1980's, it was possible for the average "Joe" to just go to a fellowship once a week, and proceed no further if you like. I don't know if that's possible today. From what I've heard, they want more commitment from participants today. But hey, I know exactly what you're talking about. Perhaps you can keep trying it for a while and if you feel too much pressure, back off?One of the early mottos of TWI was that the participant "freely availed" themselves to spiritual nurture and growth. Therefore if you feel you're not "freely availing yourself", perhaps you are being pushed into something you may not want? Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good.

JM, here's what I would do: confront the friend you have been going with, and the coordinator of the meeting, with the things you have apprehensions about. See what they have to say about your thoughts, and see if their response makes sense and satisfies you. I think it all may boil down to this: can you trust them, and are they being really honest with you and care about what you think? Once you get answers to those questions, you may be able to figure this all out for yourself.

At one time I thought his first name was Loyd. What's a Loy?

JustThinking, I don't know about hq because I wasn't there for longer than a ROA to know. But I suspect it was the same there as on the field, cause when VP was in charge, people generally agreed with what he was teaching; after all, we all thought he was so accurate. People who disagreed just left.

Excath I think you nailed it.

Me too, Johniam. Additionally, I still had family members standing with TWI at the time, I'm sure that had some pull as well. But like you, had I known what I do now, in all probability the departing would have been earlier.

Sorry Oakspear, I misunderstood you.From what I've seen, the teachings were pretty uniform when VPW was in charge. Any significant diverse teaching wouldn't have been allowed. But I do believe that at times, things were said that VPW probably wouldn't have approved of if he knew about it, or else he might have said it differently. One example might be how when someone was sick, VPW taught that you don't teach believing to a person when they're sick, but when they're healthy. Now maybe some others were overzealous and didn't follow that.

Stayed Too Long, you wouldn't be talking about Roman Catholicism would ya? Seems all too familiar.

Yes. No.I think VPW is responsible for everything he knew about before 1982. Things he didn't know about, is not his fault. And after ol Craig got installed as President, it was a whole new ballgame. Look at it this way: if George Washington and Ben Franklin were alive today, would they recognize this country as the same one they founded? I think it's similar with VPW and present day TWI.

It's pretty ridiculous that TWI still holds fast to the belief that having a mortgage is somehow off the Word. What stupidity. Like that's any worse than being continously indebted to your landlord?

WhiteDove, I mentioned that on page one of this thread, although not quoting the scripture. As they say, those who have ears to hear, will hear. ...

Who's dismissing it? The verse says that if a condition is met, forgiveness is required.But It does not say that if that condition is not met, forgiveness is prohibited.

I can't speak for Catcup, but I'd like to hear her viewpoint on your question. I don't believe life is so mechanical that one is required to wait for repentence before forgiveness/mercy is administered. Gee, that would be another law I'd have to follow. But what about walking in the spirit... fruit of the spirit is love, joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness meekness temperance against such there is no law ... Also there may well be a legitimate reason why the person who caused harm is not repenting. they may be preoccupied, unaware, oblivious, blind, cold, hardhearted, or dead. Why do I have to base my ability to forgive and have mercy on someone else? I don't.