oldiesman

Why not both? He loved and respected VP, and also used him to get to the top. That was LCM's goal for a long time, to be top dog. The real question is why. Was it for God's glory, to genuinely serve the body of Christ? or for his own glory and sating his own ego? Ol Craig has proven the latter, thus far.I sometimes hope he makes a genuine Godly comeback, like Darth Vader.

Looks like he truly did that.

What a shameless personal attack against someone you never met, someone who has done you no harm whatever, and someone who was just trying to do the will of God, like yourself. Bravo Rascal. What a bastion of love and kindness now that you're out of twi. Garth, whatever you choose to call this, I wouldn't call it widespread female gender bias, all across the ministry. Heck 99% of folks didn't even know this stuff was happening. Highlighting a few cases and saying its equal to widespread abuse, is not being fair or accurate with the facts. But that's what happens when one focuses only on the sins of people. You shant hear anything else. Oakspear, others opinions are definitely valid! But blanket false accusations like there was widespread female gender bias in twi, should be challenged. BTW, if what you're saying is really true, that there was widespread female gender abuse in twi, why oh why did you hang around for so long, or even go back? You had the chance at any time to leave, thank you very much. But you hung around, even with all this female abuse going on? and went back later on? Gag me Oakspear. The pot calling the kettle black. And who gives you the freedom in Christ to perpetually engage in bitterness, wrath, anger, malice and evil speaking? My bible says put that stuff away. Oh, but you're straighting folks out on how we Christians ought to think about our brothers and sisters in twi. The pot calling the kettle black. Vickles, there were just as many women in charge as men. Where have you been? I had just as many female coordinators during my stint, as males. IF there were this female gender bias you so love to embrace, why were fems allowed to runs twigs, branches, limbs? Teach classes and coordinate. Twi wouldn't have put women IN CHARGE of things, if they were thought of as inferior, or second class.And now back to your regularly scheduled thread... Simon, I think you'd have a point if folks knew she was capable of murdering her 5 children. But who knew that?

Steve, if I'm suffering from Tunnel Vision, then so are you my friend! What was I "sheltered" from? Perhaps not having to deal with a family who wasn't involved with twi, for years. Since my whole family was involved, it was a blessing. But the "connections" argument doesn't make my experience or opinions any less valid than yours, or anyone elses. Oh and btw, if you asked those of my family who are still alive, if there was widespread female gender abuse, they'd probably say it's preposterous, like I just have. What nonsense.

It's a cybermyth that there was widespread female gender abuse.I wouldn't have been involved in a group/movement for almost 20 years, had there been widespread female abuse in it. That's preposterous.

It's a myth women were victims in twi. Just another myth, from the Victim Mentality Propaganda cyberworld, to brainwash the weakminded into believing that women in twi were/are victims. Like some massive gender bias? Blahah. Balderdash.Except for VP Wierwille and a few others, I think the women in twi were running the show just as much as the men; in the case of the wives, perhaps from behind the scenes instead of upfront. And single women always had lots of ability and powerful functions and positions in twi. They still do. And who's running the show now?

Wow. :)-->

Ebay should probably suspend his account(s). Once they do that, he's unable to open another ebay account where he lives. But that doesn't mean he can't open one at some other location... Have you notified the police?

Boy, ain't that got a ring of truth to it... Here's one: A man goes to see the Rabbi. "Rabbi, something terrible is happening and I have to talk to you about it." The Rabbi asked, "What's wrong?" The man replied, "My wife is poisoning me." The Rabbi, very surprised by this, asks, "How can that be?" The man then pleads, "I'm telling you, I'm certain she's poisoning me. What should I do?" The Rabbi then offers, "Tell you what. Let me talk to her. I'll see what I can find out and I'll let you know." A week later the Rabbi calls the man and says. "I spoke to your wife...spoke to her on the phone for three hours. You want my advice?" The man said yes, and the Rabbi replied, "Take the poison."

Was reading in todays paper that analysts estimated Apple sold more than 4 million iPods during the holiday season and that that could push the number of iPod users to 10 million. In response to the high popularity of iPods, electronic makers are going to make adapters so drivers can use their vehicle stereo controls to run their iPod, instead of fiddling with the unit itself. Some of these are Pioneer Electronics, Clarion, and Alpine Electronics (already noted by Paw). New BMW cars already have them available. :)-->

Johniam, why do you hate women? Why? Why? Why?

Garth, why didn't you say that in the first place? Well, I just disagree. I still do believe in spirits, both good and evil. I also believe that some evil spirits can be rendered ineffective thru some medications. I believe in medicine too.

Garth, apparently God did not view that offspring as totally innocent. God lives in eternity; he knows things we don't.I do not believe God is evil and is responsible for evil things. If that's your point, I disagree. And again I say this has nothing to do with the Yates situation or the topic at hand. No I didn't know that, thanks Steve. A possessed person can still be held accountable for their actions. It all depends on the situation and circumstances involved.What's your point in all this Garth, that evil spirits do not exist? Or they do exist, but couldn't have been involved with Yates?

Frankee, you make good points about this and I agree with you. How could he have known his wife would kill the children? I believe she was responsible for her actions.

Rascal, her nuttiness and her possession are probably one in the same, as you seem to agree. You're funny Rascal. You take jabs at twi, even on threads that have nothing to do with twi. Let your anger go for 5 minutes.

I never said or believed that abortion was the will of God. But I never believed (and still don't) that all abortion is murder, as some teach. Doesn't mean abortion is the will of God in your life. It could be a terrible mistake. I guess it could also be murder, if one is possessed and want that fetus killed to satisfy that lust. But your experience in twi, when you were told that you should have an abortion because its better to move the word in the Corps now, than have a baby now. That's your experience. You followed it once and you didn't follow it once, right? Your choice, both times.(1) I think they were wrong in suggesting you get an abortion, for many many reasons...and (2) I think that has nothing to do with this thread and Yates' actions.

Garth, that's the rationale that makes the most sense to me and until something comes along that makes better sense, I'm sticking with it. If you have a better or more godly rationale for the killing, other than "I am SO glad that I am not mentally bound and chained by the TWI/fundamentalist based viewpoints that you have just expressed any longer", I'm all ears. Your ridicule is not a rationale. If you have answers as to why it was done in the OT, that makes sense and gives us some understanding why God wanted it done, I'm listening. But even so, the things done thousands of years ago has nothing to do with Yates' actions. You're comparing apples & oranges.

It had to do with the contaminated bloodline of those days. It had to do with God, and prophesy. I believe the people were forewarned that, if they were not going to kill those infants, that they themselves would be killed, eventually.It's something like taking a life for self defense. If someone is threatening to kill you, you have a justifiable godly reason to take their life, before they take yours. That's the way I view the rationale for the killing in the OT. AND I think it's an error for using that as an example, for the subject we are talking about NOW. Difference is a fetus is not an alive human being and there's no debate about that in our laws. If the laws viewed fetuses as alive human beings, mothers would be tried for murder after authorizing abortions. Doctors would be their accomplices.

Socks, this past weekend I joined rhapsody.com, to download some music and see how they were. I asked for 4 songs, and NONE of the 4 were found on rhapsody:(1) "Goodbye to Love" by The Marcels (2) "Hey Babe, What Would You Say?" by Hurricane Smith (3) "Nasty Girl" by Vanity 6 (4) "Heaven and Paradise" by The Meadowlarks I also looked for these 4 tunes on Napster and didn't exist on their site as well. I'm beginning to realize that these download sites aren't as good as we think they are; but I'm still looking. Other alternative is to just buy the CD.

It's not in man's nature to kill their own offspring, that's one reason why it's murder. Don't compare Yates' act as the same as Old Testament killing, i.e. killing a race of people, for a purportedly godly reason, that if not eliminated will eventually kill or contaminate you. That also has something to do with (I believe) the Nephiliam which was a race of beings that was ungodly, so killing that bloodline would be a godly thing. Therefore I view that OT killing as an act of self or national defense; whereas killing your own offspring in the violent way Yates did, for no godly reason whatever, is possession. I believe twofold... defense and justice. (1) Defense in the sense that the person will never kill again AND that spirit is not inhabiting that body any longer; and (2) justice for the dead children.

Garth, so then demons and evil spirits aren't around anymore? I think Yates was definitely possessed with the spirit of murder. If her actions do not qualify, what does? What it took for her to murder her children was an incredibly violent act. Kids were crying kicking and screaming all the way to the bathtub. She takes them and holds them down by the throat, one by one, boldly and fiercely, until they gave up the ghost. That's possession.

I believe Yates actions were spirit induced.