oldiesman

My two favorites was "I Love the Lord" by Hope and the primitive "Romans 10:9". :)-->

David, thanks for sharing. I think it's worth a try. :)-->

And that's why his intent, I believe, was for everyone to try the product and decide for themselves if it was useful to themselves. If it wasn't useful, all one had to do was open the door, and leave. Interesting that lots of folks stayed for so long.I suppose you're in a different boat Georgio, in that you didn't ask to be around and were born into it. You have a reasonable excuse since you couldn't just get up and leave. I'm sorry you have all sour memories and not many decent ones. The ministry wasn't a blessing for folks like you, I suppose.

I suppose you'd have some meaningful argument if the 1953 class and the 1967 class were identical. THEN you may say with ALL BOLDNESS, that VPW stole PFAL from Leonard. Yawn.

So what? It was made known that B.G. Leonard was one of the men of God scattered across the continent that VPW learned from, that ultimately led to the final version of the PFAL class we all know and loved. Instead of focusing on the truth in the class (even B.G. Leonard's version), you instead focus on how Wierwille got some of the information, and if the way he got some of the information doesn't suit your fancy, you slam him. Who cares? Try looking at the truth in the class. And if you look at the results of a class that blessed thousands of folks, you may see that one of the issues was a godly communication from a man who was doing God's will in communicating it. There you go again, focusing on Wierwille.

It sure was a big responsibility.

Nothing of the kind, unless you think having monuments and rememberances of historical figures is idolatry.When we all visit Washington D.C., and see and enjoy all the monuments and honors of the founding fathers, do you call that idolatry as well?

UncleHairy, I gave your question more thought last night. The conclusion I came up with is, I actually think VPW may have written "Christians Believe The Preposterous" in part so that TWI, the ministry, the organization, would be in a position to have "carloads of money" and resources. I tend to have this opinion do to the writings right in CSPB talking about "a tithing church is a prosperous church" and all that. He puts the family farm in twi's name and now everything, all the wealth he generates, goes to TWI. He wants it to prosper.The question now becomes why did he do it? Some say he did it to fulfill his own lust for power and money. But I still think he did it to move the Word. I think he wanted twi to have abundant resources so that the Word would move better and faster. Purchasing more and more facilities means more and more real estate to inhabit more and more Christians to train and teach more and more people. The fact that those oldtimers of the '60s left when they did could have been their own suspicions and evil thoughts about VPW doing it out of his own lust, greed and power. It's possible. I could be wrong, I'm not God and certainly don't know everything that went thru his mind; but I prefer to think good thoughts about VPW in this category until I have definitive proof otherwise.

Thanks Steve, I hadn't noticed. Skyrider, are you referring to your Corps duties? Please explain what you refer to as legalism. Gee, I think TWI was anything but legalistic before the 90's. Have you checked out some other religious groups?

If some folks would quit focusing endlessly on Wierwille's sins and dirty laundry, maybe the focus wouldn't be on the preacher; but other, more important things.Does focusing on Wierwille's sins magnify the True and Living Way, the Christ?

Who cares? He taught that the Word of God is the Will of God, and ingrained it in lots of us. There's more power and lasting blessing in that one thought than all the nasties you guys love to focus on.

All I can say about this subject is I don't think the way VPW taught it was accurate, or works. Also, he made some comments that look like fear motivation to me. But I prefer to refrain from the personal attacks and leave true judgment up to God, since He knew where VPW's heart was.Regarding controls put on people...I view it as people in large part allowing controls to be placed on themselves, by joining the Corps and believing that decisions made by VPW for them were godly decisions. I suppose folks who thought differently could have easily opted out of the Corps, and many did. Lots of folks chose to not go Corps as well. Regarding the stolen teachings...I've seen instances that VPW plagiarized some sentences. But we all knew back then and now that VPW "learned from men of God scattered across the continent". He got PFAL from a variety of sources...some Leonard, some Stiles, some Bullinger, some from his own study. He "put it together", he adapted it to his own class form and the "interpretation" he thought was the best. I think it was the best at that time, and lots of folks thought the same as me, judging from their years and years in twi. There are many many goodies in PFAL, if you spent a fraction of the time focusing on the truth contained therein then you'd have something other than VPW'S sins to chew on and digest.

I guess it depends. I think he believed what he taught on many issues. What is it that he taught that he didn't believe? how do you come to that conclusion?

I fail to get the significance of this. Paul was talking to Israel, but Romans 10:9 applies to everyone, as well. Would you rather had VPW taught that Romans 10:9 only applies to Israel, and get folks (non Israel) thinking how they can't be saved, because Roman's 10:9 doesn't apply to them specifically? THAT would be lying.

Laleo, this is a good paragraph from you, thanks, and I believe this would also apply to those of us who still think a few good thoughts about VPW and TWI. Thanks.

Thank you, Radar :)-->

Been away for a few days.. wow hey this is a good thread :)--> Evan, to the best of my knowledge, works of the flesh committed by a Christian doesn't disqualify same from walking by the spirit, when they do. If they did, then I suppose the good Christians who post here, some of whom continually engage in hatred, wrath and strife, would be disqualified as well.VPW preached and taught the Word. Not everything was right on but boy he made an impact and taught the bible is truth, and instilled in us solid respect for that Word. Folks who hung around for years, were blessed with twi and proved by their lives and for themselves that TWI was a genuine ministry at one time. Ours (and VPW'S) good godly works were not in vain.

VP preached and taught God's Word, so if you believe the Word is a scam, and patently false, then ol VP was promoting a scam. If not, then I shant not accuse VP of being a scam artist. Paul said someplace that "if in this life only we have our hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." In other words, if the Word is a myth, a fantasy, then we are all in deeeeeep doo doo.

The statement was that he wasn't ever committed to the "ministry of the Word"... In other words, he didn't care about God's word moving and blessing people, all he cared about was building a corporation? That's an insult and evil communication about a decent guy, who did care that folks were blessed. It's like if I said something about your commitment, you a faithful believer for years and years wanting the word to move, but I say all your concerned about was meeting your own needs and didn't care about ANYTHING else. That's a slam. I've heard a couple of instances of extra-marital affairs. NOTHING like what VP is accused of. But the disparagement was questioning Don's commitment to God; not that he wasn't an angel. None of us were (or are) angels. I just saw as strange somebody coming on here having all kinds of nice and understanding things to say about VPW and LCM, but cuts DEW down. Sounds pretty cockeyed to me. Kind of hypocritical too. But thats the way personal vendettas go I suppose.You amaze me too, Belle. I hope we can learn from each other. Hopefull, since Don always struck you as a kind man, does he deserve to be labelled as not having any commitment to the Word, and all he wanted was to build a corporation? How kind a man is that?Thanks for sharing.

Of course HCW slammed him. What do you call that?I wouldn't disparage ANYBODY like that, much less a guy who generally has a good report with folks, and a great report with some folks like me. Sounds like a significant personal vendetta to me. Oh well Don prolly never kissed his butt or something. Otherwise, hi Mike :)-->

Aah. Another Wierwille Worshipper!BUT! A Don Wierwille hater ...It kind of amazes me that someone would come on Greasespot and have nothing at all nice to say about Don Wierwille (who rarely gets criticized), while simultaneously having kindness and understanding toward VPW and LCM. Personal vendetta rant?

Oakspear, I think a bullet in the head would have been justifiable in most jurisdictions. As a matter of fact, I think it can be argued that that would have been the preferred way. It's quick, effective, and gets the job done faster than trying to wrestle with a fierce crazy person.Now if you're Arnold Schwartzenegger, I don't know. If you have the physical training and conditioning to take down a crazy possessed woman, in the act of murder, with your bare hands, you can try if you want. I guess it depends on your physical condition, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'm not a lawyer or a cop, but as far as I know, one may use deadly physical force to prevent a murder. Heck, they'd be a hero.

She really deserved that one too, because of what she did. Since we're talking about violence against women, had Yates been caught perpetrating her murderous act, it would have been legally justifiable for anyone to have killed her right on the spot.

Johniam, I haven't seen that scene in a while, but I remember everyone watching that movie loved it when she got wacked, because of what she did. Good example. ha ha...those were some bada$$ mamas there...