oldiesman

Steve!, just so there are no misunderstandings and false impressions repeatedly asserted: 1) I said that if someone invited me back to a fellowship, I would go and check it out. I didn't say I would remain or be a regular, and if you recall, I said if I attended a fellowship, I wouldn't give a dime. Remember that, Steve!? 2) I am pro-twi-1. that covers my experience with TWI-1. I am NOT pro-twi-2. Although I will say that in some cases, I take their side because of the obnoxious and unrelenting attacks against them. 3) My time with twi-1 wasn't all sun and roses, so you misrepresent what I've said. And regarding the women being victims, some of them were, some of them weren't. And that's really old stuff, we haven't discussed that stuff in probably over a year yet you're still thinking about those really old posts.

Hi Sharon, my my aren't we perturbed today? I don't know all the reasons why TWI has settled some claims out of court. It all depends on the complaint but I guess it's because they see it as more costly for them, both in perception and finances, if there were a trial than not. But twi settling a case doesn't mean they couldn't win, or that the ones suing have a great case. TWI most likely settles because of what they are afraid of losing. What dancing money are you talking about?

I have a better idea. Why don't some of you folks join in the Peeler lawsuit? How about contributing some money to the cause, as a silent, or not-so-silent, partner? I mean, why should only the Peelers bear all of the financial burden for this noble cause? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

I think they settled the case and it didn't go to court. This was written about in "The Cult That Snapped."

Their claim sort of reminds me of something that might be similar to a cigarette smoker who smoked for years, who then had developed massive health problems, and the courts ruling that the massive health problems were caused by involuntary smoking and the smoker gets a huge award for smoking for years. They'd first need to prove that the smoking was not voluntary. Very very hard to prove. Next they'd have to prove damages. That their smoking was the cause of their massive illnesses. How were the Peeler's involvement involuntary? And what specifically are the Peeler's abuses/damages? Anything ongoing? Anything terminal? They have to prove these things to some pretty smart folks. My guess is, they can't.

LearnedTooLate, this is a reason why I'm against the Peelers lawsuit, as I do not agree with their premise as touching "us". That's a conclusion that's very very hard to prove. If the Peelers can prove in open court that THEIR OWN hearts and lives were destroyed by TWI who "CLAIMED" to THEM to teach THEM about God and his love for THEM, but who were only taking advantage of THEM, then more power to them. I doubt they can prove that but I wasn't there to witness their involvement in TWI or how they may have been "abused". But I do know that they can't prove abuse touching MY involvement, and I'm guessing, many folks' involvement. I won't speak for others although I know of few who were not abused and they'd say so. That's one of the problems with the whole case, this idea of some collective abuse, like we were all victims because of our involvement. The Peeler's don't speak for everyone, and should stop trying to suggest that we were abused "as a group". I'm sure twi, if need be, could bring forth more than enough witnesses who will rebut the claim of some massive, community abuse.

LearnedTooLate, it really doesn't take a lot of guts to start a lawsuit. All it takes is money. One may start a frivilous lawsuit if they have money, as well. The Allen's never went thru a trauma of a twi lawsuit. I, and I'm guessing many of us, wish they had followed thru with their original intentions to go thru with the lawsuit so that all the facts would have been exposed under oath. But, you know when you have that green stuff shoved in your face, the temptation can be overwhelming. Gosh, let's hope that's true. But that green stuff does have a sweet smell to it, doncha think? But if they decide to follow thru and not settle, and lose, THEN I'd say they will have something to complain about.

Right on, Johniam!

Actually I heard that Jack did take the class.

Oh another thing, here I go again, but who's "we" and "us"? Seems like the attorney is saying that "we", as in all ex-twi believers?, agree that we all are all likeminded in twi's negligence and the merits of Peeler's case. Don't know if that will fly.

Not exactly. My guess is that the BOT has a responsibility to be in compliance with the not-for-profit business law of Ohio, for one. How that all relates to non-members of the corporation is another stowray.

Jim Doop, since you're not hawking your book, may I please have a complimentary copy.

The Board of Trustees didn't have a fiduciary responsibility to participants. I'm not a lawyer, but I understand some of this concept, being a shareholder in a cooperative. In a cooperative, the Board of Directors have a fiduciary responsibility to all the shareholders. That means basically, when making cooperative decisions, they must always act in the shareholders best interests, and act in the shareholders best FINANCIAL best interests. But, we weren't even members in twi. We held no shares. We had no mandatory dues. As a shareholder in a cooperative, I have mandatory dues. If I don't pay, I can ultimately lose my shares. But if you "didn't pay your dues" in twi, what did you lose? Nothing, because you never owned anything to begin with. This concept also is based upon the Business Corporation Law of each state. And there's no law that I know of that mandates the owners of a church institution as owing their participants anything. It was all free-will giving. Seems reasonable that the Corps might be different, because you're paying for a specific program, and if they don't deliver the program, you have a right to your money back.

Thanks for this information David. No I don't have GPS...ha! I still love looking at old-fashioned maps. But those things are pretty incredible. How does a weekend sometime in May sound for the trip there? Ideally, if I can let you know about 2 days ahead of time, that would give me the best chance of planning on riding during the nicest weather. I hate riding in rain unless its the hot summer when it's welcome.

Well, alls I can say is, if folks were listening to PFAL, they'd know that once born again, ya can't die spiritually. Happy Weekend, one and all!

Galen, I'm with you, and thanks for your comments. I think for me the thoughts of spiritual death were abandoned early on, after a few good twigs. By the 7th Session of PFAL (not to mention Session 5) when VP spoke about sonship and all, that sealed it.

Rascal, you [snip] can't even email me privately to discuss this, to hear my side of your propaganda. [snip] You and your silent [snip] source should really move on to something else. Don't listen to me...moddishwasher asked you not to bring up anything involving family members, and that includes your vague accusations. If you're so courageous, you and your brave source may email me privately anytime. Come on, let's hear what you have to say that's so vital.

What does a Pope need last rites for? I mean, he's the Vicar of Christ! He's one tough nut...I was impressed by his perserverence in sickness and distress.

Mr. Hammeroni, if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you. Geeze, why else would one go to twig and fellowship unless it was a pleasant, profitable experience? Had to be something there of significant satisfaction to keep folks coming back for more.

The doctrine really isn't the point. TWI could have had a belief and teaching that if you eat 3 apples a day, you will never get sick, and if you fail to eat 3 apples a day, you will get sick. But it was up to try it or not, to see if it worked in our life. If it didn't, we were under no compulsion to practice it. When compulsion existed in the 1990's and beyond, and folks declined, the worst that happened is they asked folks to leave. Let's be fair. We weren't in kindergarden and we weren't 5 years old, like as if we couldn't make decision on our own.

Moddishwasher, thanks for the clarification. Although Rascal and her silent partner(s) are too cowardly to discuss the specifics of their accusations even privately (which I am still open to), maybe your request will be enough to deter public false accusatory conduct of this sort in the future. I'd say that was the opposite of believing... simply not taking care of the problem.Lack of reproof and correction=lack of believing.

This is getting good. Unfortunately I am getting ready to retire from Greasespot today. Let's see if the accusers will contact me privately with the information that's so important and vital to understand my time at twi.

Thanks Diazbro. I'm still waiting to hear from the accusers with their disclosures.