oldiesman

But he did confess. He said "lots of the stuff I teach is not original".

The way I see it, if he wanted to hide and lie and steal and deceive us into thinking that all his teachings were original, he would not have made the statement that his stuff was not original, and would not have included the books he learned from, right there in the bookstore for all to research. Why is this so hard to some to recognize? Perhaps because some folks just don't want to admit the obvious?

This is an interesting point that Mike also makes that I've been tossing around in my head. The possibility exists that the books and collaterals from PFAL were not designed for the masses, but designed only for "our household", which could be a possible explanation why he didn't execute proper written acknowledgement in them. I remember twi actively asking us not to distribute the PFAL books by themselves...i.e., they were just for us who already took the class. The rationale: "why give someone crumbs when they may eat the whole loaf." On the other hand, a book that was apparently designed for the masses that was never discouraged from distribution by itself, i.e., Jesus Christ is not God, does have proper written acknowledgement.

Absolutely! Try this treat: Victor's Eggnog 3 oz Drambuie 6 oz milk 1 oz half-and-half 1 egg Combine ingredients in a blender with half a cup of crushed ice. Blend until smooth. Pour into a collins glass, sprinkle with nutmeg, and serve. Oh Gloray!

I will never be the same again.

Merry Relo Happy Christ-Mass Ho HO Christian Kwanza Chanukah Buddha Holiday Cheer to all! * < ( : - )

Thanks for your comments Jonny. Happy Christ relo Merry Ho HO Christmas

Merry Ho Ho Happy Christmas Relo * < ( : - )

A few other things about Solomon that you probably already know: He was faithful to the Lord early in life, it was later in his life that he screwed up royally. He had some 1,000 wives, and many who worshipped idols, which was forbidden. Solomon built shrines to his wives' idols. To give homage to his wives and please them, he himself participated in the worship of these idols. This was very bad stuff, I'm sure you know. Each of these idols were connected with appalling practices... For instance, the idols Chemosh and Molech required human sacrifice of children, or infants, in their worship. Solomon introduced much sin to Israel, DESPITE God's great blessings to Solomon. God gave him great wisdom, wealth, security, health, etc; but Solomon blew it and it cost him lots of blessings. ************************** All this speaks loudly to me when I think of VP's sins. All the blessings God bestowed upon VP and us, many genuine Godly blessings, didn't guarantee VP's and doesn't guarantee our faithfulness to Him. I think it is correct that TWI was ultimately ruined because of VP sins, both doctrinal and practical.

How do you know that I was not apprised of the facts? *double snort* I do not know how much, only making an educated guess that it had to be at least 6 figures. Rascal said it was millions...maybe she really knows. :lol:

Why thank you, Nandon. :lol: I'm not so sure. Not just what I wanted, but a whole lot of folks. Folks who post. I think back and it comes to mind that many many folks were expecting the lawsuit to start. I don't recall Paul Allen dissuading the idea of a lawsuit...all was proceeding toward a definite lawsuit. Then at the last minute, they settle for megabucks. TWI offered, and they took. I don't know, just seems like many folks were *used* for the Allens own personal financial remuneration. Posters seemed *used*, for the Allens own financial benefit. I think some posters were very very upset with that, and even quit posting altogether because of it.

Right on! ... Craig never said or implied that you have to speak in tongues, to get born again. Therefore, the internet page that Belle directed us to, on the first page, is wrong, regarding their statement about twi's "tongues" teaching and its supposed implications.

And there you have it. Instead of thinking that all the believers wanted was to win some members of the military to the Lord Jesus Christ, one man's paranoia (source #1) leads some in the FBI to suspect that Vierville wants a nuclear weapon to explode. *bang* Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown: 4 days :D

Sure enough. Which is why the lawsuit would have been an excellent opportunity for those things to be exposed. Which is why I question the "bravery" of the Allens. I believe it would have indeed been brave to proceed with the lawsuit, to expose all these things in open court. THAT is bravery. Not setting up an internet page and letting folks vent, then collecting mega money. But money is sometimes too tempting to walk away from, isn't it?

Wayfer Not, no I'm not kidding...dead serious.I am sure you have heard the statement something like this "there is his side, her side, their side, and THE TRUTH" etc. Testimony under cross examination usually gets to all the facts, whereby folks may have a chance at making an informed decision, knowing all sides of a story. I would have liked to hear everything under oath. Or read it. Testimony under oath is more reliable than internet hearsay and gossip.

Belle, please email me privately at oldiesmanpics@aol.com, and I will give you an answer to the above.

Would be nice if there were some believers who didn't accept the Hush Money? Money money money money gimme money.

Belle have you taken me off ignore?

Come on guys, be honest. Don't you wish there had been a lawsuit? I do Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown: 4 days :D

Well Gee, if they weren't concerned about the money, why did they settle? Golly, they had many many believers willing to help out financially. I just think going forth with the lawsuit would have been the greater good. Also, there's something about reading testimony under the scrutiny of cross examination that gets to the truth better.

*snort* God in his foreknowledge knew that all these men were BIG sinners, yet he worked with them anyway. Their sins did not disqualify them from God working with them, as per your opinion.

:D :lol: :D

*snort* Saul and David were murderers. Solomon was an idolatrous sex addict. Apparently their sins did not disqualify them, so I surmise VP's sins did not disqualify him from teaching God's Word. And judging from the response, many many folks were blessed from God and thankful for their involvement in twi, despite Viervilles sins. Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown -- 4 days :D

Then simply prove it on this topic we are discussing on getting born again. Show us when and where in twi it was even SAID, let alone in WRITING, that speaking in tongues is a requirement for salvation. I'm even willing to bet big bucks that it was never even STATED BY TWI, by ACCIDENT,...let alone TAUGHT in WRITING anywhere in TWI. That is how sure I am. TWI taught that salvation comes with belief in Jesus Christ, by GRACE we are saved, not of works lest any man should boast. TWI taught we are born again of incorruptible seed via Romans 10:9. Happy Ho Ho Relo Countdown -- 4 days away. :D

dooj, I cannot say why and I cannot ask him or speak for him, he's dead. All I know is, from the evidence we have, I believe he communicated that his stuff was not original and he didn't try to palm this stuff off as "his own." It was stated in the collaterals that VP "learned from men of God scattered across the continent" He said himself that his stuff wasn't original, in 1972. And please honestly ask yourself something: even if he had directly listed all of his sources in all his books; ... would that have changed anything? your believing or commitment at the time? It wouldn't have mattered one iota to me whether others were listed as sources. I probably would have thanked them as well.