oldiesman

How can you possibly know that?Are you God, the Searcher of all hearts? Goodness gracious, I hope not. I'm not. Your thoughts are erroneous. :)

I am so, so thankful I don't think like you. Thanks for the new smileys Paw.

It really is incredible and insane that Howard thought that. Sounds like brainwashing to me. :lol:

Carnally and selfishly using followers to recruit for them?What a shameful, pitiful conclusion. I prefer to view my service as it said in the WOW handbook, about "Who is a WOW Ambassador"?

I think because TWI left it up to folks' decisions whether or not God was working in their hearts to go, despite their past.I too was concerned about TWI allowing folks to make the decision to go out WOW from the Rock. I thought that twi should have been more careful, making folks give themselves more time to plan, to count the cost, etc. I wrote a letter to Ralph D. about it, and he informed me that statistically, less folks leave the field who have decided at the Rock than who have planned. I will admit that TWI was very liberal and not very strict with folks wanting to go WOW. I believe, because they left it up to the honesty integrity and will of the people going, believing that God will work in their hearts to move the Word, and they'd be blessed doing that. That worked for most, but obviously, didn't work for some others. the bot and twi leaders made mistakes, they are human. We all made mistakes and still make them.

Here's one: Excathedra's story of VP drugging, then raping her. Thanks WordWolf, glad we agree on something.

Not true Belle.I do not always blame the victim, and do not maintain TWI never does anything wrong. But, I do admit that I abstain from the suspicions, backbiting, bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, evil speaking, malice, unrelenting finger-pointing condemnations, and so forth. There is a difference. ;)

Interesting spin. You really think that we were instructed that if God told us not to witness to someone to avoid a potential tragedy, we were to follow "the program" anyway, and disregard God? Please, show me that one in your WOW syllabus. :lol:

Not true. I base my judgment on the facts of each individual situation.But, I would say that *you* probably blame twi for everything, because any situation involving twi has twi involved in it. And just twi's involvement in it, is enough for you to blame them for being responsible. (umm, responsible for anything *BAD*, that is.) Who cares about any other details- :lol:

Ok. But you also seem to be forgetting that twi programs were "voluntary".I think we must take some responsibility ourselves for *putting ourselves* in these programs, along with every other consideration. But you know Wordwolf, if you applied the above in every situation you analyze and dissect, with appropriate blame going to ALL the various parties involved, I think your reasonings would be more objective. I'll try one: I volunteered to go WOW, and TWI sent me to Amarillo Tx on my first WOW year. One day, the car I am driving gets sideswipped by a truck, on the highway. I was in the left lane passing a truck in the center lane, and obviously didn't pass the truck vigorously enough. The whole side of the car was demolished and I almost got killed. Who's to blame? I would first and foremost blame myself...for not avoiding the accident that I believe I could have avoided. AND The truck driver, for making a mistake, and sideswipping me. But now I feel like accessing extra blame to related parties: I was coming home from work. Maybe my job at that time gets a little blame, since I might not have gotten into the accident if I hadn't been working that day. I was driving an Opel Manta. Maybe Opel should get a little blame for making the car that I got sideswipped in, that didn't have enough horsepower for me to pass fast enough. I was driving on a highway in Amarillo. Maybe Amarillo, for having a highway that I could get sideswipped on. If Amarillo didn't exist, maybe the accident wouldn't have happened. I was driving in Texas. Maybe Texas, for having a state that had a highway that I was driving on that I got sideswipped on. If Texas didn't exist, maybe the accident wouldn't have happened. I was driving in the USA. Maybe USA, for being a country that had a highway that I was driving on that I got sideswipped on. If USA didn't exist, maybe the accident wouldn't have happened. And so forth, all the way up to God's Universe. And let's not forget the Devil's hand in all this... And finally, *last but not least*, maybe TWI, since if I hadn't been involved with twi, maybe this wouldn't have happened. Then again, maybe it would have anyway. And so I conclude that twi had about as much culpability in that crash as the State of Texas did, which was basically, none.

Looking at something in hindsight, with a critique toward improvement, is one thing, and quite honorable.But all I seem to see from you is a view toward destruction of anything twi related. Do you really have a heart to see a BETTER TWI? Or have it destroyed?

Doing the Word can be risky. That's fair enough and I don't advocate blaming them or condemning them, but nor should the program be condemned.Maybe we should access blame where it belongs, on the actual perpetrator of the crime.

And had Cowgirl acted on the revelation she received from God, not to talk with that guy, it would have been entirely to her credit, for acting upon God's warning.But, does that mean the WOW program was wrong for asking her to preach the Word? If that's the case, Mark 16:15 is wrong. Should the WOW program be blamed if something ungodly happened to her? Well, if she hadn't gone out WOW, it might not have happened to her, true enough. On the other hand, maybe it could have happened elsewhere. In that event, who do you blame?

If the people running the program knew that it was a dangerous neighborhood, and there's a probability that someone would get hurt, but sent them anyway, then yeah, you lay blame on the people making the decision. How did the organization know the Christian would likely be robbed?

And when someone got some help thru a WOW, the program also should get some credit for that success as well, for having been developed to have the Christian there to help another.Another way you might want to look at it is something like a baseball team you're fond of, winning the world series. Individual players help win the world series, and should be thanked, but it's also good that there's an organization there as part of the team that put the winning team together.

I pointed that out numerous times?You are misrepresenting my position, and putting words in my mouth. Nothing new. I prefer to look at the facts in each situation, then judge accordingly. But *you* seem to ALWAYS place the blame on twi, or the bot, or other representatives of twi, or anything twi related; the facts of a situation be damned.

Sounds like the only other option satisfying to you may have been not to have the program at all?But what's your take on when assaults, rapes and murders happen outside of twi? Who do you blame then?

I agree with WhiteDove & Linda Z. that the corps was a lifetime of leadership in twi, which meant a lifetime of "moving the Word," twi's way. Looking at it from another perspective, from the sponsor's perspective: why would someone sponsor an individual if they knew it was only for 4 years, then only to see the corps grad quit moving the Word?

It looks like you just missed the revelation...not to worry though God is still in business. ;) I tend to agree with the WOWs. You were blessed for speaking/doing the Word and it could have been worse. You're out there preaching the gospel to everything that moves (Mark 16:15)... Then God warns you not to speak to this guy over there.. but, unfortunately, you missed it. You speak to him anyway, he follows and harasses you, and, in a display of confident power and believing, you boldly say "In the name of Jesus Christ get off me"! Immediately the guy backs off, astonished at the power of God you were exposing him to! Sounds like a victorious story to me. :lol:

Have you decided to join us yet, ex10? Works for saint and sinner alike. "we are one"

Which is a clear double-standard. You blame twi and the bot for the ungodliness that happened. Yet offer no thanks or congrats to twi and the bot for the godliness that happened. Plain and simple hypocrisy.

Yeah, all except VP, Craig, and BOT, and anyone else who's on your poo poo list. :lol: :lol:

Cool did suggest that revelation was bogus, yes. Go back and read what Cool posted before you accuse me of manipulation.And how do you know they lied? Are you saying that there was never any revelation/inspiration during WOW placements? How can you possibly know all that? But if you said they lacked the prophetic skills to know when some of these tragic events would happen, I would agree with you.

I don't look at it as deliberately placing people in harm's way. But, if someone wanted to sue them if they thought they'd get financial recompense for damages, it might make sense depending on the circumstances.This reminds me of my cooperative. I was on the Board of Directors, and was protected by insurance, in the event someone falls on ice or whatnot and sues the Corporation and me for damages. Was it my intent that the person fall and hurt themselves? No! Same may be said of the bot. Was it their intent that folks got hurt, raped, murdered? I trow not :lol: Everything is *intent*. But it is possible that the Corporation *can be* legally held responsible for damages depending on the individual circumstances, which is why businesses have insurance policies, and specific officers & directors insurance policies to protect themselves individually as directors. Even if they did all that at all times, their efforts still wouldn't have guaranteed safety at all times.

I don't know how they could have possibly guaranteed safety.That's like saying they claimed they were able to eliminate ungodliness. :lol: :lol: Having coffee right now, Cool.And no I am not a closet innie!! So then you believe that nobody in twi ever received revelation or godly inspiration? Well, we just disagree. :lol: