oldiesman

He did ... after he got his piece of the pie.

This sounds a bit overstated. What you describe didn't happen every time. When I had questions and/or problems with something that was being done that couldn't be handled on the twig level, or doctrinal problems, I wrote letters to hq, sometimes to VP, sometimes to Craig, sometimes to research dept., sometimes to the Trunk Coord. And at those times I got polite answers. I still have these letters in my files. The answers weren't always what I wanted to hear... but it was nothing like you described.

Easy for me to understand. Repentence is for the unsaved sinner. Forgiveness is for the saved sinner. Repentence is confessing the Savior: Romans 10:9, John 3:16, then God gives eternal life. Forgiveness is confessing sins after salvation: I John 1:9 He has given eternal life to us who believe. Some folks believe that God grants everyone eternal life, no matter whether one believes in Christ, or not. But I believe one must believe in Jesus, as the bible says. Automatic forgiveness? God asks us (saved sinners) to confess our sins, and he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thanks for the info. I just put this at the top of my netflix queue. From netflix:

I think God made it easier for us to understand, in Christ Jesus. Jesus came to, among other things, expose the works of the Devil. The Devil is the author of sickness pain death, and all manner of evil. That is not to say that man is not responsible for his actions ... But, when we understand and BELIEVE that there is a spiritual source of evil, I think it makes it easier to forgive ourselves and others. It works for me.

The stink of sewage? Is that what you think likemindedness is? Likemindedness is a biblical principle, to be strived for. In many scriptures, it may even be considered a commandment of the Lord. Golly, I wonder what your views are of the Third Heaven and Earth, and what it will be like? For instance, think your wifes Tarot Business will be allowed?

Posting my opinions.

Mikes posts get read more than anyones, even mine.

Of course.

The Greasespot Cafe forum is a freedom of speech, freedom of expression forum. There are forums that do not allow contrary opinions to the stated purpose of the website. Greasespot Cafe is not one of those.

I really should say expected "guidelines" because of course we varied in what we did from time to time. But the basic themes were all the same, were pretty much standard. For example, singing, prayer, manifestations, abundant sharing, teaching, ministering, prayer, coffee & twinkies, and so forth. Oh, and we had to start on time. Any divergence from these basic themes? All of these came from hq.

Diazbro, did you have self-governing authority in your fellowship? Or were the rules & regs. decided by hq?

Who knows that their local fellowships in the home are perverted? I'm gonna say "I don't know" because I haven't been there in 15 years. For all I know, maybe a local fellowship of theirs is quite good.

Most everything came from the top down. Or from the root up, however you look at it. What does "self governing" mean anyway? It means we at twig governed everything ourselves. Well, did you govern things? Of course not. You followed the rules and regs. established from Intl Hq.

That is correct. I do not gloss over VP, despite his learning from other sources. I also am very thankful for Stiles Bullinger Leonard Kenyon Luther, et al. I wasn't taught by them, but am thankful they taught VP and others.

Fine, but you are comparing apples with oranges. TWI was/is a group that holds forth the accuracy of God's Word (for the most part ). That is the basic belief. If you don't like it, or couldn't agree with that, you were/are free to leave. The Greasespot Cafe forum is a place for freedom of expression. If you don't like that or don't agree with that, leave.

Mark, the twigs I attended were all those good things you mentioned, but I was spared the anal micromanagement of the 1990's and beyond. Why am I not involved today? I've said before, if someone invited me, I would check it out to see what's happening. Wouldn't contribute any money for hq, but I may enjoy the fellowship & fig newtons. Don't think there are any places to go close by me tho'. twi still has church in the home, so whether you like them or not, they haven't abandoned the concept.

It wasn't implemented as far as I saw, whether or not it was verbalized. Self propagating? hmm ... ok I will concede that one.

Hi Linda, Not sure what your point is, but twi abandoned that concept, if it ever had it, very early on. I can't remember that twig was ever "self supporting", "self governing", "self propagating". The Way Tree syllabus, where I think I saw that concept in print, wasn't applied, as far as I know.

I was taught the accuracy of God's Word by Victor Paul Wierwille. If that makes me a Wierwillite, so be it.

Whether one likes twi or not, they never blew the concept. They've been doing it successfully for over 40 years, to this day. Even as thousands of folks left, they never abandoned the concept.

Oh really? The term blind obedience was not in the March or April 1989 letters, and I believe written documentation sent to thousands, trumps verbal hearsay to one. The terminology used in the letters is "stand with and support". But, for the sake of argument, let us assume that Craig meant blind obedience... You know what that means if you were in the corps. That was taught in the corps and all staff and corps know what it means and what twi means by it. So, if one had a problem with that concept, one should have dealt with it way way before the concept may have been invoked or verbalized. That is assuming he actually meant blind obedience... like "go shoot yourself in the head if I tell you". When I think of Craig asking for blind obedience, it is in the context of moving the word... doing the work of the ministry... so I would read that into the context it was written.

Except when some/most of his sargeants, lieutenants, captains and such, are possibly/probably thinking that the leader is ineffective, off the wall, corrupt, worshipping other gods, etc. At that point, a line has to be drawn. It is incumbent upon the leader to ask/request/demand of his sargeants, lieutenants, captains and such, where they stand. If they do not "stand with me" -- please make up your mind, be honest, and get out -- go stand with someone else you don't have a problem standing with. An employee stands with and supports their employer, whether they are a minister of Christ, or not. If an employee can't or won't be loyal to and support their employer, they really should move onto something else.

Eagle, he did write 2 letters, one in March and one in April, 1989, asking way employees and corps to stand with him in the movement of the Word, and if folks couldn't do it, to be honest about it and resign. He didn't lie to you or hq about that. If he wrote a letter subsequent saying "and don't give me any of that standing with God crap" I can understand where he was coming from and can envision him saying that. And I agree with it and it makes sense to me. Some people apparently responded to his request "I stand with God". That response was insulting and nonresponsive to his request for folks to make up their mind who they stand with, either the trustees or Geer, or someone else. He wrote in his March 1989 letter that standing with God means to do his word and will, and each of us must decide with whom we want to do that. And so, the response "I stand with God" was crapola, unresponsive and insulting. When the boss of a company asks for your loyalty and wants you to stand with him as best you can on a project, and you answer "I stand with God"... what do you think the boss will say? "Don't give me any of that standing with God crap"... or "ask God to send you a paycheck" You stand with God ... Great! So do 8,000 other religions. Where do you stand with me?

I just found out the "rumor" that twi is now running PFAL classes is false. The same person who fed me the rumor corrected themselves. Oh well.