oldiesman

Jkboehme, If all your theories about twi paganism, trances and brainwashing were true, it would be impossible for folks to "eat the fish, and spit out the bones" like so many have done. You seem to leave no room for the possibility that twi taught godly truths that one may enjoy and build on, without being held captive to the twi organization. I don't even buy your theory that folks are entrapped there, even today. Folks have free will. You insult people.

Right, but he never said or wrote that all his ideas were his own. "Putting it together" so that it fit, he said, was the original work. Yeah, he learned from Lamsa. Have anything that was lifted word for word? That is what we have agreed plagiarism really is... using someone else's writings and copying them word for word, without giving proper written acknowledgement.

Jkboehme, What words/sentences did VP plagiarize from Lamsa?

For the Branch Davidians it was, this was their religious belief.Doesn't make them "dangerous" and doesn't call for them to get killed. And it wasn't "all the women in the kingdom", it was a selected number from the bible that they believed were going to be elders, after the seven seals came to pass. There was no pressure. This is what they all believed was God's Will for their lives. You might want to watch the film and see for yourself what really happened.

Jkboehme, Your concerns do not lie in twi doctrine, yet you attack it as repackaged paganism? Whatever. Thanks for your deep insight on what true Christianity is.

Yes, this was covered in "Waco Rules of Engagement". Have you seen the film? The sheriff of the county where all this happened was interviewed and spoke about everything at Mt. Carmel. Marriage is legal at the age of 14 in Texas. (or it was legal at that time...) Also, consider biblical culture when they got married. very young. There's no doubt their beliefs were different and strange to our culture. But they believed that Koresh was what the bible referred to as the "sinning messiah". Not Christ, but a Christ-like figure who would procreate elders who would be leaders in the millenium. That was the spirit in which these sexual encounters happened... for procreation. Everyone in their group knew about it and approved. This is vastly different from say, VP drugging someone and appropriating himself privately. There is no comparison. The Branch Davidians was an offshoot of the Seven Day Adventist church. They believed Koresh was teaching accurately about the seven seals. Wierd as all this sounds, folks have a right to their own religious beliefs in this country. Doesn't make them dangerous -- that was part of the smear campaign to downplay the government's atrocious actions regarding this matter. Our own government, when it usurps our constitutional liberties, *is dangerous*. A person who supposedly knows so much about "the counterfeit" and has so much concern and zeal to explain it, ought to at least have as much concern and zeal to expound about "the genuine". We may actually learn something of value. It's so easy to tear down. You are very good at that too, Wordwolf.

Jkboehme, I read your stuff closely and haven't gotten an answer from you. If PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

Jkboehme, How do you know what is on/in another man's conscience?

Jkboehme, So then PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism? Ok, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

Jkboehme, So then PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism? Ok, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

It would be incorrect to assume that just because I may not comment on someone elses opinions means I am in agreement with them. Nice try though. :D

When one looks at all the facts, I don't see how anyone can seriously blame Koresh for what happened. He gets it though. Classic case of one entity doing evil deeds, yet blames someone else. This whole thing could have been avoided had forces and entities in our own government not been "agenda driven". A little more respect for our constitutional liberties would have been nice, as well... But I agree with you that our government contains sociopaths..obviously. I went to view the film again last night and record it on a DVD, but my VCR broke down on me....now I have an excuse to buy a new one. :P

Jkboehme, So then PFAL and other classes and teachings taught in twi were basically nothing more than repackaged paganism? Ok, please reveal what are the true doctrines of Christianity?

Mo, there wasn't any evidence that Koresh was "dangerous" or a leader of a "Dangerous Cult". Did you happen to view the film "Waco, The Rules of Engagement"? These folks were murdered by the FBI. The government had plenty of time to pick Koresh up weeks before the murders, if he was so "dangerous".

Belle, how can you be so sure?

Here's more information about government coverup of Oklahoma: Terror, Lies & Memos

And so VP's true aim and intent were to permanently destroy folks' ability to know, trust and love God?

Mark, thanks for the feedback. Well, they *could* be, if that is the only way a poor soul thinks they might get saved. Reminds me of when I was a youngster, I was living in so much fear and horror that I'd die and wouldn't go to heaven, not knowing whether I was God's child, or was good enough to eternally enter His kingdom, that I wore a cloth pendant, raising the odds that upon my death, it might matter. I remember reciting the Hail Mary over and over and over again. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen". over and over and over and over .... I also remember that the Roman Catholic church has traditionally held that salvation may be attained only through observance of their sacraments. Therefore, they have set themselves apart as the only true church. Only through them, one may have a chance for salvation. But there are no guarantees!

So to sum up your post, Mark, you believe that salvation is by works?

I don't think they were similar at all. Twin towers had planes fly into them eventually causing all the destruction from the inside. Oklahoma was an outside explosion, that "supposedly" caused all the destruction of the building "from the outside".

Actions of leaders notwithstanding, any church that promotes the idea that salvation is works based (church, penance, mass, baptism, etc.) is not spiritually good. Unless they have changed, these are requirements for salvation in RC church.

On the other hand there have been many cases of pedophilia in the RC church. Youngsters required to service the priests in the name of God. And yet, folks still choose to fellowship with the RC church. And folks still choose to fellowship with twi. If that is how we will judge, then the same holds true for RC church. Let's not be hypocrites.

Doesn't the RC church do the same thing, i.e., put "fear of leaving" in folks? They did years ago, maybe they have changed. In any case, I don't automatically assume that twi folks are "afraid to leave". I leave open the possibility that they *want* to be there... just like the RC folks.

Seems pretty easy to summarize a man's life when viewed from an unmerciful, unforgiving, condemnational microscope.

That's it, thank you Excathedra. :) Gee you are more brainwashed than me. :o