geisha779

Also--for the record--I just adore Oakspear! Always have! :)

Wordwolf, I beg to disagree--it is part of the topic and it was important to my response to Mark---I did qualify my response, knowing it would illicit some sort of reproof-- and further begged your indulgence. Hating to use it as an example--but, because that is what I see in those verses! Might I tell you something with the sincerest of heart. I don't judge your Christian faith. I don't even know you. I know we shared a cult. I can see that you are wonderfully knowledgable with the bible. I read your posts and I enjoy them. I say what I see in the scriptures -- it is NEVER a slight or a dig or intended to hurt anyone. If you feel I have slapped you in the face--I am truly ashamed. I mean that. I would never want to hurt you in anyway. You are free to believe whatever you wish. That I intentionally inject things--that I seek to hurt--but, I must now leave these forums for a bit--because I can't be party to causing you to judge my motives--you judge wrongly and I will not cause you to stumble. Again, I am sorry if I hurt you--my aim was to offer a hand to Mark and to honestly answer his questions. You never entered my mind. I took the time to read Mark's site and felt comfortable speaking with him. Knowing as I do--that he probably considers me an idolator. That never once bothered me. And so you know--I don't know what you or most others here believe about Jesus--just the ones I have had the real pleasure of meeting and speaking to.

Mark, I just wanted to add this. I have a friend--Joe--He is 46 years old. He has worked at the same job for 25 years. Pushing shopping carts. He is a Christian--His faith is in Christ. He reads at a 2nd grade level. Yet, He knows the Lord. He is innocence personified and gracious beyond anyone I have ever met. Never complains--works hard and is thankful for his life and job. He still lives at home with his elderly parents. He doesn't understand that he could lose his salvation if he does not persevere. He persevere's as the Lord works in him. He is unable to keep himself--the Lord keeps him. He is mentally handicapped--autistic--but, aware enough to have accepted Jesus as his savior. Do you think, should that man--with his limited circumstance, should he stumble, stray or become confused- will be lost? He is an amazing example of a Christian--often I am chastened by his pure heart and walk with Jesus. Serves to help me. Take Care, off to grumpy clients with too much time and money on their hands!--told you about the tomatoes--didn't I! :)

Hi RG I am printing this stuff out. Is laCresent near Stillwater? Sounds like a great market--we almost moved to Mn--wish we had--or of course Bangor! LOL This weekend--I am having a yardsale and am going to bake on Sunday--AND--I am going to make that jam. I have not tried to--since I burnt my hand. Question---can I use canning jars to freeze? I actually have some jam jars in storage--I may go get those. What a great gift idea. You could make scones--jam--mock clotted cream and do up a basket for someone. I used to do that all the time--or make an English tea tray for everyone on Sundays. Oh, you could even put in a box of Earl Grey too. I am going to do that. I love it--thanks. I would bring one to you--but it might be stale by the time it got there!! Geisha

WordWolf, I will take the hit--and promise you this is my last post on the topic--seems to really annoy you--I have no interest in discussing it either, I WAS ASKED--and I will answer Mark--and not start a new thread--begging your indulgence for a brief interlude. And this road that you speak of--is related to being born-again. I am telling you exactly what I believe. Since I have anguished over this topic--perhaps you will allow me a moment? Since I have really considered it--and mourned over it--perhaps you will allow it? Where does that tone come from? Love? I detected sarcasm? Why does it bother you? If you don't believe it--and know it to be wrong--why do you even care? I have never once bit at you like that. As a Christian I am sure you are aware--we are to be kind to one another? To speak the truth in love. Seems you would like to see me silent on certain topics as my beliefs differ from yours. Or is it just certain threads I am allowed to speak on? JESUS is the center of Christianity--a fairly important piece of the puzzle. Why is a discussion of who He is in relation to the new birth--off topic? What exactly DO you believe TWI was--Christianity? Or do you think it was gnosticism? I think you know where I stand. Either way, I still enjoy what you say--consider it--care about your feelings and would NEVER ask you to leave a thread. The only time I addressed you was to point out how good I thought your point was--and to apologize when you misunderstood that. I like and care about ex-way people--even those who have turned away from God all together. Mark, I know you believe it is a lifetime of repentance--correct? So, do I. But, my salvation is repentance and acceptance of the Jesus of the bible--the beginning of a relationship with my LORD--whom I serve. It becomes a personal lifelong relationship. What about the prodical Son? Will the Lord take you back should you wander, which it seems each of our hearts will do? I believe we are saved, but have not yet inherited. It isn't so much as the trinity I speak of either--although, without the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit--we are all deaf, dumb, and blind. I believe 1st John is speaking of those who deny Jesus is God. Not misunderstand for a time, but deny. These are those--actually opposed to Christ. You can also have a great deal of head knowledge about the bible--I am speaking of faith in Christ. So, when I speak to you of the verses in Hebrews--without a similar understanding of who the Son is--you and I will not see the same thing. He who believes has eternal life (John 6:47).... Every one who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:40).... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish: no one can snatch them out of my hand (John 10:28)…. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1).... Those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son (Romans 8:29).... [Nothing] will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:39).... [Christ] will keep you strong to the end (1 Corinthians 1:8).... God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear (1 Corinthian 10:13).... He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion (Philippians 1:6).... We have passed from death to life (1 John 3:14). My faith is in Christ. I move forward in my faith. . . He sustains me. Mark, I speak from experience here, from a deeper understanding. I was NOT born-again in TWI--but, I was professing myself a Christian. I SIT--believed God raised Jesus from the dead--yada yada yada--I lived a sin-filled lifestyle--where life was cheap and the hearts of people cheaper. Where legalism abounded and love was COLD!! Do you hear what I am saying to you? I said I was a Christian. I lived a sinners life--and what is worse--I justified it in the name of God. I didn't know Jesus. How to really get that across to you? I relegated Him. I did not obey or serve Him. The depth of that--the deeper understanding of the transformation--AFTER my true repentance. A painful and long affair--not a moment either--it took a long time for me to see God and repent. It was not fun, or pretty--the weight of what I had done--sat on my shoulders for a time. I was convicted. I could never do those things again. Ever. I could never believe God condones them. Even had I striven to live a moral life--it would have still been dead. Although a simple understanding could be that you can lose your salvation--the verses above contradict that. These warnings are controversial but I lived them. I professed Christ and claimed to be a believer--yet I turned away so easily. To fall away--means to commit apostasy--The writer is admonishing his readers NOT to go back to the OT sacrifical system because Jesus is superior to it in every way. If they turned away from Him, repentance would be impossible--BECAUSE--it cannot be found anywhere ELSE once Jesus is rejected. By their actions, such persons disgrace Christ openly and seek to re-crucify Him. If they forsake faith in Christ after having professed it and go back(not persevere) They were never saved to begin with. My faith was in "Another" Jesus. All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. You do not have to look any further than this forum--to see the truth of what I tell you. That is not a judgement--many speak freely of abandoning their faith. Some even use sarcasm? It truly does matter WHOM you put your faith in, and should you EVER wonder--or need a friend. I am easy to find.

Hi Excie. I think your heart far surpasses mine. I am sorry too that people you trusted hurt you. I wish I had half your grace and goodness.

Hey Mark, I am beat--long day--crabby clients! So, if you will be patient, I will answer you in more depth when I have more than a sleepy moment. Now, why would it matter who Jesus is concerning the warnings. Well, think about it. When you confess Jesus as Lord--do you not agree that it must be the Jesus of the bible? The one who died and was risen? Does it matter if you confess the Jesus of Islam? They hold Him in pretty high regard. Will he do--He has prophet status? Do the scriptures not warn us that other Jesus' are preached? Do they? That is a warning Mark. Now, if you have put your faith in a false Jesus--say the Jesus of Islam--who is a special man. And another has put their faith in the Jesus of the bible--who is the Son of God, whose faith will endure? Whose is real? Whom will Jesus keep from falling? The one whose faith is in another Jesus? There are many Jesus' preached--Islam--mormons-JW's-TWI-Moonies-they are NOT the Jesus of scripture. Mark, I have said this on here until I think people are ready to pelt me with rotten tomatoes--BUT, for you I will take the hit and say it again. Who are YOU confessing as LORD in your life? Because it matters--when you go out from us--you were never really of us. Another Jesus + Another Spirit = Another Gospel. What about saving faith? Repentence? What if someone--with words confesses Jesus as Lord--yet does not repent and bears no true fruit? Is that person saved? Why do we stand on the outskirts looking into Christianity? Why did we in TWI? Why is ABC having a difficult time with accreditation? Why does Buzzard's attendence at a simple Christian conference lead to such problems? Because Christians are wrong? Misguided? Confused? Unenlightened? Do I or traditional Christianity--have the wrong gospel when we call Jesus God and understand the work on the cross in that light? Are we all idolators? Or do we see something--in the Lord--that you deny? That is the question--right gospel--faith in the Jesus of scriptures--enduring faith. Persevering faith in our Lord. Not in our own ability-- Examine ourselves YES! Do we seek out that which is familar--and is comfortable--makes sense to our minds? Or do we humble ourselves before Him and ask--who He is? I told you--I don't have ex-cult leaders teaching me the bible. I don't allow men who deny Him as God to influence my faith--because I have an intimite relationship with Jesus Christ--He is my father-My keeper--I know His voice--I know who He is. I love Him and He is my Lord--He reveals to me always--who He is--what He is doing in my life and that I belong to Him. He comes for me when I wander--He woos me--He holds me--and He will sustain me. I trust Him.

What a WONDERFUL idea La Prochaine--now, I can't believe I didn't think of it--but I never did. I bake all the time--my escape. I am surprized we are not the rolly polly family. But, we still manage not to waddle!! In the winter--nothing is as sweet as the smell of cinnamon baking away in a nice juicy pie! Now I will have ready sliced apples for tarts and pies! Thanks. RG I love the dumpling recipe--I will make that one soon. The rest are great too. Thanks--I hope others try them. I will let you know how they turn out. Cranberries are another New England favorite--and I love the combination with apples--thanks so much! I do freeze breads--zucchini and other seasonal stuff. Canning? Well, when I was a kid--my two great aunts would can every summer. HUGE production--and all I remember is the dire warnings if it wasn't done right. So, I always think I will poison my poor family. I made jelly once and was pouring it into a canning jar--somehow ended up pouring it on my hand. That was a fun trip to the ER as it was boiling hot and STUCK to my hand!! The bread recipe I posted--it really is an awesome bread--I hope you both try it--it will become a regular. So, goooood! Thanks!!!

Hi Mark, Yes the scences were from "The Passion". I am so glad you enjoyed it--because I posted it just for you. Your question begs answers that run so deeply as to be virtually impossible to address here on a forum. One of the reasons I won't engage you is because I can see how very sold-out and deeply immersed you are in your new faith. Having been in a cult and ridden that high of special knowledge--I know from experience--you think I blindly accept what I was taught. You appear to feel you now have a 'right' understanding. Your posts often use the word "Misunderstanding" when you set forth your interpretation of scripture. You used "blindly accept" in the above quote. It is a neon sign to me Mark. What if you are seeing through an aberrant lens? Were I to tell you that your blindness of those very scriptures you quote comes from your 'misunderstanding' of who Jesus is--. Would you for a second seriously consider my words? If I told you that they are actually speaking of you--would you hear me? Or would you pity me as misguided and try to explain to me how to see the Hebraic understanding? I know that you believe you have found the truth. You came from one cult that denied that Jesus--So did Anthony Buzzard. You found another cult where you are comfortable--as it holds the same doctrine. It is just dressed differently. More scholary. Your new faith finds itself on many lists that include the Church of God--and The Way International--that is why I call it a cult. But, when I was in TWI--lists written by Christian watchmen--didn't matter--they were wrong. In reality--they were right. The few things I can do for you are pray and direct you to some sound Christian teachers. Since you seem impressed with the scholarly aspect of teaching--I would direct you to Ravi Zacharias--who teaches at Oxford. R.C.Sprouls is another scholarly man you could listen to. In fact Mark, you may even be able to contact these men and meet them--sit down with them and speak to them. They were never in a cult--and they never denied Jesus. When you ask "What more can God do?" It screams to me--he doesn't know Him--How can He not know that God is able, how can he not know who the ones who turn away really are? Mark, you need to ask yourself--who did you initially confess as Lord--the Jesus of scripture--or the Jesus preached by those looking in from outside Christianity? The warnings are real--look at them again--what faith do we continue in--what gospel did we first heed. This post is offered in love--not anger and with no malice.

know ye not that you were bought with a price for you are not your own- The price paid to a Holy God was the shed blood of His own Son. Knowing that you are not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood as of a lamb unblemished and spotless the blood of Christ. For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory so that your faith and hope are in God.

Hey Mark, I think you know why I feel the way I do about your new theology and Buzzard. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Why I believe it to be aberrant. But, I was thinking about you today, and wanted to tell you something. I have been to your website a few times. I even had some people I know look at it--so, I did take the time. Here is what I did see though, your blog. I cried. I have been praying for you since. If you ever decide you are looking for something else and want to talk about the Lord Jesus--I am easy to contact and I will do anything I can to help you. Geisha

Hey Mark, Last time--my point to you is that Buzzard came out of COG--a VERY VERY nasty group. Makes TWI look like a Sunday picinic. He was close to its leader--Armstrong, accused of incest BTW. He, Buzzard, was a leader. He left over doctrinal issues. At least that is what he has told many. I have read--later than 1972 He started Church of God -General Council-- He has changed some of his theology--but still has ads in former COG publications--he has not cut all his COG ties. Believe whatEVER revisionist history you want. Some here still think VP was a good guy. THere are plenty of TWI offshoots who have members who think their leader was the "good guy"--got rid of the chaffe and have integrity. You yourself said Vince has changed--I wonder if that is because you agree with more of his theology. For me--I stay away from all former cult leaders--whether it be my own little personal cornfield cult--the Branch Dividians or The Church Of God. I am funny like that---aberrant theology equals aberrant lifestyle. I tend to gravitate towards teachers who NEVER participated in groups that tore down countless human beings in the name of God. That is my point. Take Care

Hi, I love the doctrinal discussions and you always have some good topics! I know for us--Jesus declared God(Exegesis) for us. If no one has seen God, how could the Lord appear to the OT saints, wrestle with Jacob, show his back to Moses etc? Because God is Spirit and spirit does not have flesh and bones--God is not inherently bodied, BUT he appeared to people temporarily in bodily form in OT times as a precursor to His FULL incarnation in Jesus. For God who said "Light shall shine out of darkness", He has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God's glory in the face of Jesus Christ. Seeking His face implies an intimacy. David was in hiding from His enemies--and he sought the intimate face of God. Was God hiding His face from David? We seek His hand--what He will give us, but do we seek His face? To know him closely. Not just His will--but Him. Who He is--His manner-His character--His wisdom. Psalm 30, 7 O LORD, when you favored me, you made my mountain stand firm; but when you hid your face, I was dismayed. Have you ever heard that God sometimes hides His face? If we know Him--we know EXACTLY what that means. He is hiding His favor. What does that cause we, who intimately know Him, to do? Man, we start seeking His face in those dark times. Usually, down on ours! :) 143, 7 Answer me quickly, O LORD; my spirit fails. Do not hide your face from me or I will be like those who go down to the pit. We seek that intimacy with Him--that knowing Him--His hiding ---it causes us to truly seek HIM--not just His hand of goodness. My darkest times are when I cannot find God--my most wrenching are when I start really looking-My most joyous are when He again reveals Himself to me. Even the tiniest glimpse revives me. He shows me His face. I know Him.

Hi, I agree with DWBH in this respect--blind judging the blinder as far as the cults and offshoots are concerned--I also think that it really doesn't matter what they want to call themselves now, then, or later. They all spring from polluted water IMHO. However, the fact that " Atlanta Bible College is having difficulty with accreditation because they would have to sign a statement of beliefs which includes the Trinity. They are trying to find other ways around that currently" ought to be speaking VOLUMES. But I don't want a doctrinal debate. I just have to really wonder sometimes if a statement like this should not really speak to us. Mark, nice response--you did miss my point-but I understand(I was in TWI) but, I do wish you nothing but good.

I love that they are coming along so nicely! Sounds like strides rather than baby steps! Congrats! It is really a test of patience.Here are the photos of Dickie and Onslow--getting the still sealed catnip out of the TOP of the cupboard and then SHAMELESSLY overindulging!My cats are junkies--I must get them to a meeting of some kind--or into rehab!http://picasaweb.google.com/DickieandOnslow/NaughtyBoys#

Hey thomas, Thanks--I was speaking of Armstrongism, which is more adventist and VERY unitarian--an even uglier cult than TWI. Hard to believe. Anthony Buzzard was a leader in that cult--left when they renounced unitarianism and apologized for the abuse. I know who he is and what he helped create--thanks thomas! :) Geisha This is the same thing as saying Vince isn't an offshoot of TWI--because he changed some doctrines--It comes from a duck--but it is really now a swan? Wish I never brought it up.

Hey Mark, Hope this finds you well. I know exactly who Sir Anthony Buzzard is--and why he says he left Church of god. He was pretty close to Armstrong from what I can gather. His fellowship is on several lists of breakaway offshoots from COG(Splinter groups). In fact, that link I provided has his fellowship listed. It is a very comprehensive list. Didn't he separate from WCG when it went mainstream and help the Church of God General Council? Isn't one of the groups on Vince's outreach partner link Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith? Really, it is like saying Vince isn't a TWI offshoot anymore because he has some new theology. Still built on the same foundation though. Either way, this is America and we are free to choose what we will. I just took you up on your offer to really look at Vince's site. He just realigned himself with a differing offshoots of a bigger cult. A few changes but, the same. That is my opinion. You are entitled to yours. To quote DWBH----Peace

There is help for people trying to recover from these splinter groupshttp://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/

This really struck me. . . . as Vince Finnegan's group has been mentioned a few times on this thread. Now, I may have my groups wrong on this, BUT isn't one of the "Outreach" Partners listed on Finnegan's site The Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith????? Isn't this a BREAKAWAY group from the Worldwide Church of God ? Herbert W Armstrong's group? Isn't this affiliated with the Church of God General Council?? Much of the main church under new leadership--APOLOGIZED for its abuses and went MAINSTREAM in their doctrine. The group Vince Finnegan aligns himself with brokeaway and refused to do this. There are websites JUST LIKE THIS ONE--with former members telling horrific stories of bondage and ABUSE. According to them--they gave 30% of their income to support the lifestyles of Armstrong and his son. False teachers--just like VP. Look into it. Mass corruption--criminal fraud--class-action lawsuits--leaders living large off the tithes. Echoes of TWI on a much LARGER scale. Splintered when the big guy died! This group Finnegan has as an outreach partnership with--broke away. . . . . . when the group said sorry and reformed. . . . . they didn't do this!! How is this ANY different!! I don't think it is---just a splinter group from a larger cult. That is all it is--new cult--differing beliefs---same wreckage left in its wake. Armstrong taught British Israelism--same stuff-different face. All of it so darn similar as to be scary. Same conspiracy junk. Different bondage is all. Finnegan hasn't changed--other than his cult affiliation. I am sure that many will disagree, but this is IMHO

Another thing I started to do a few years ago--was throw some "Red Hots" the little cinnamon candies--into a few of the pies I bake--this is a nice variation. I don't cut back too much on the sugar or cinnamon--and I only use a handful.

Soon we will be overrun with apples--at least in this neck of the woods. I am looking for any good apple recipes. . . . pies-sauces-baked apples--anything I can make with them would be helpful? I will soon have bags, buckets, and baskets of apples in my back kitchen. Hate to see even one of them go to the compost. Hard to give them all away--as everyone has them this time of year!! I started making this a few years ago. It is the BEST apple bread I have found! The batter is so yummy--I am always surprized it makes it to the pan. The bread never lasts long--but if you make extra it does freeze. I always make some to take around to the elderly neighbors. The kids love it too! :) INGREDIENTS 1/2 cup butter or margarine, softened 1 cup sugar 2 eggs 1 teaspoon vanilla extract 2 cups all-purpose flour 1 teaspoon baking soda 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/3 cup buttermilk 1 cup chopped, peeled apple 1/3 cup chopped walnuts TOPPING: 1/3 cup all-purpose flour 2 tablespoons sugar 2 tablespoons brown sugar 1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon 3 tablespoons butter or margarine DIRECTIONS In a mixing bowl, cream butter and sugar. Beat in eggs and vanilla. Combine flour, baking soda and salt; stir into the creamed mixture alternately with buttermilk. Fold in apple and nuts. Pour into a greased 9-in. x 5-in. x 3-in. loaf pan. For topping, combine the first four ingredients; cut in butter until crumbly. Sprinkle over batter. Bake at 350 degrees F for 55-60 minutes or until bread tests done. Cool in pan 10 minutes before removing to a wire rack.

THANKS RG--Very Cool . . . . . I don't really like country music all that much--but I love this song--thinking of the people in Texas . . . . . . . . .

What happens when things go bad? Someone is sick? Someones passes away? Job loss? Kid get's in trouble? Things don't run smoothly--marraige goes through a rough patch? What happens when people in the real world--don't see the greatness of believing=recieving? Or, someone challenges them with reason and logic and they are completely unprepared to answer? Not everyone knows TWI's "Rightly divided gnostic gospel" or uses the bible as their authority to sin. Will everyone outside the "Household" who disagrees with them be "possesed"? Devil Spirit influenced? You can't live your life in a TWI vacuum, you just don't function well--at least not when confronted with the diverse society in which we find ourselves. It was the 1980's when last they last probably lived in the "World". Big hair is gone--shoulder pads are "out" and the "Police" broke-up--Sting went solo! For me, the transition into the world was a real challenge--- I think that is why many seek an offshoot. Maybe it is like a step-down program. Can I just share a bit of what happened to me--it is how I look at the transition--as it is what I lived. I never planned it--it just unfolded this way. . . . If they do seek a church for fellowship--that is a process. I went through many churches--never fitting in because I didn't adhere to the BASIC tenents of the Christian faith. I embarassed myself completely--challenging ministers--being argumentitive--wanting to show them the error of their beliefs. Oddly enough--they didn't fall for it. After awhile, I gave up seeking church---I really didn't belong there--not being at odds with their faith. I gave up on God for awhile. I went to college. Amherst. Culture shock! It was the best thing I could have done. Met people I really liked--learned again, what it meant to accept someone without agreeing with their entire worldview. Changed my politics after seeing the same us vs them mentality. Took a few classes at Smith College--Huge homosexual population--met people I had previously judged as evil--liked many of them and made FRIENDS!! Mt. Holyoke College. Met older students like me--seeking to better their lives--made friends with WONDERFUL people of other faiths! Oh My!! My kids helped as well, they had friends of other faiths-cultures-nationalities. I was confronted with diversity the more I put myself out there. Learned a second language. ---really got into that--music, culture, lit. . . . that was fun. I had an illegal immigrant speaking partner from the Ivory Coast. Went into her underground world where many hide from the government. What a network!! Then I felt that old familar pull of God. Decided to really look at it ---instead of taking it on faith. I reasoned and weighed the evidence for myself this time. Understood things I had just refused to see before. I started to fit in at church--sharing a common faith. Believing things for myself--not afraid of "Devils" under every rock, I got to accept Christians--know them--LIKE them!! They are people with faults--just like me. :) I stopped trying to keep myself from the world and all its influences--I learned to live in it peacefully while still adhering to my own world view. So, all this didn't happen over night. I am still a Christian--just not a "Special Knowledge" elite super-hero with magic power, kind. I have a family--own a home-- jobs----used to participate in local government. It was not an easy process--each step stripped me of WAY think. I was not in nearly 30 years. Hubby was in longer than me. . . . and his journey was a bit different. We had a young Christian friend--whom hubby knew well--He died a tragic death at 23 years old. That had a huge impact on evaluating things. This young man, Sean, was truly an awesome servant of God. We watched his family grieve with such grace--putting the gospel out there and still praising God--not confused by their lack of believing or where the hedge of protection went. No talk of blame--or leaving the household. They had faith and dignity. You don't just walk out one day and say--all better. Look where we have all landed? Different lives--beliefs--ethics. . . So, given my own experience--I think they will for awhile--walk around in a TWI fog. But, I hope for them--a few rough seas to strip them of it--and bring them back to a life with joy--happiness--and yes--sorrow and some pain. It is all part of the big picture--it is called living!!

Okay---this isn't the entire song--but I like it--and this video ALWAYS makes me laugh!

Wow, how did I miss this post. What a wonderful example of love. I too feel for the victimizers--odd to hear--maybe for some, but they were in fact victims of erroneous doctrine and practice--which allowed such behavior to grow unchecked. I hope repentance for them--and a ceasing of the perpetual abuse which comes from a rotten foundation--a warped understanding of Jesus and His sacrifice, the fact that we are to love even our enemies--and we are called to live in peace as best we can. Our first reaction to tales of abuse--compassion. Nothing else works. Revictimizing a victim----seems to stem from a cold heart. Cold toward Jesus--who died for all. It may also stem from a wounded heart--how do we know? We don't--we can point it out--but it is up to the one revictimizing to see it. It has to stem from a misunderstanding of just who Jesus is and what he did for all-His heart for all--it couldn't happen if that was firmly in place--not consistently. Certainly not in God's name. It all makes me pray the more for those in TWI or ever really involved with TWI. Nice post RG!