geisha779

Well, He walked on water, raised people from the dead--calmed the seas--not to mention the tranfiguration. What I would call it is the power of God--what you call it is your business. I wish you well--take care. . . To Add: I couldn't agree MORE with you about Dobson--I don't believe in HATE--but in love.

I love the way God never forces himself on us. . . . all through the gospels Jesus tells us to consider this. . . consider that. . . many Christians live their lives like they will never stand before him. . . . so, those who don't think He is coming back are really not alone. I have that hope in my heart. I. . . like Bride. . . . believe he is coming back. No big shocker there I guess.

Gee, ya got me there?????? oh and Jesus was an alchemist????? Take Care Dr. WW. :) To add: Yes Jesus was a friend to sinners--who mentioned M&A--and I still don't see the logic --but it is a free country--preach on. . .

Well, you know I would have him in a minute. . . maybe when we move to Bangor!! LOL I am making Now I See Sugar cookies today. . . hungry men looking at an empty cake dish--not fun!

Isn't it a giant leap in "Logic" to go from "There is neither male nor female. . . " to homosexuality is okay?

Leafytwiglet, That clip is Ravi Zacharias--a really interesting speaker. He answers many of the questions posted above. . . he also debates atheists. He teaches at Oxford and has some great books. Really fun to listen to--bring a dictionary! :)

Shunning---or M&A is practiced in many extreme or radical groups--it is based in part on this. . . It just took awhile for TWI to sink their teeth into it!! I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." 1 Cor 5-9 Ironically the ones doing the shunning are the ones acting immorally. Like Twinky said. . . JW's also practice this as well as other cults. . . http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s50.html

Hi Mike, You sound like you have a tender heart and I am glad it did not suffer at the hands of these leaders. I really am. Some have suffered greatly and their stories are heartbreaking. Please just consider who inflicted the suffering. I mean really consider the men and women who hurt people in the name of God. Were they truly followers of the Lord Jesus Christ? Did they obey His commandments? Did they submit to His lordship and authority when they raped and drugged--when they abused and destroyed? When they tore marriages apart and children from their parents. . . when they humiliated and debased fellow HUMAN BEINGS in the name of God? Was that His express will for them as Christians? Consider who we are speaking of here. Christian men and women? Maybe on another planet. . . You can never convince me that those who were so arrogant in their abuse ever belonged to Jesus. Their fruit exposes them. By revealing the hidden things of TWI they are exposed even more. Should anyone consider taking their classes and come here first. . . at least they will know what TWI really is. That is a good thing. . . a really good thing.

Hi leafytwiglet, I am posting this in response to your question I hope you listen through. I think it might help answer why it is considered a sin. By the way--this man uses "Reason" and "Logic" in his approach to scripture--he and many others-IMHO those questions listed in the initial post have a resounding answer should one chose to hear them.

Suo Gan is a traditional Welsh lullaby--Really a beautiful song.

I have heard a dollar a gallon by summer!! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/ ". . . But consider what has happened since July 11 when a barrel of oil hit a record $147.27 and a gallon of gas was $4.117 on July 17. In less than five months, oil has fallen 72 percent. Just this week, in which the National Bureau of Economic Research determined that the U.S. is in recession, oil has fallen 25 percent. On Friday, light, sweet crude for January delivery settled at $40.81 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, down by nearly $3 per barrel. Prices fell as low at $40.50, levels last seen in December 2004. Gasoline futures for January delivery tumbled to 90 cents. For gas prices to get close to a $1, oil prices probably would need to fall another $10 a barrel — something that would have impossible to fathom during first part of this year as oil prices soared near $150 per barrel. “Just seeing that ’1’ up there is just hard to imagine,” said Kevin Keating, 65, an attorney as he filled up his Volvo S60 at a station in Phoenix that advertised prices at $1.67. 'Wasn’t that long ago that we worried about the ’4’ being up there. . .' "

Except, did you ever notice what deference was given to those professionals that were established already? I moved around alot(Of course) and in some areas there were doctors-lawyers and people with real jobs. I noticed these people were usually given a pass on the labor and hit up for their homes being used or more money. We had friends whose father was a semi-famous TV personality but he was not in the ministry or a PFAL grad. LCM would laud these "Great believers and their family as being examples. Now, they WERE VERY nice people, but it was always odd how they were singled out. We used to help them out with "Labor" all the time. I think that whole work and college thing--where the ministry was more important--really did have an impact. When I left I was older than your AVERAGE college co-ed and had to spend a bunch of time playing catch up. Married with kids and no education or real job experience at that age was difficult to say the least. I just gave up and started sub-contracting work. It really was a joke. . . the whole thing--someone want to explain exactly HOW--cleaning a limb home was serving God? Better stop reading this thread--it is starting to bring up memories of lost youth and is ticking me off. What a total WASTE of time it all was. How did it "Profit" any of us? We learned how to work?. . . . Well heck, I already knew that . . .

Hey RG here is another peppermint candy that is so easy to make. . . Candy Cane Brittle 1/2 cup light corn syrup 1 cup sugar 1 cup crushed candy canes 1 teaspoon butter or margarine 1 teaspoon vanilla 1 teaspoon baking soda In a round 1-1/2 quart microwave safe dish, combine corn syrup and sugar. Stir well until blended. Microwave on high for 4 minutes. Stir mixture (if using nuts instead of candy canes, stir nuts in now). Microwave on high 4-5 minutes or until light brown. Stir in butter and vanilla-blend well. Microwave on high 1-2 minutes. Add baking soda-stir lightly until foamy. Quickly pour onto lightly greased baking sheet (you can use Pam or shortening). Pour crushed candy canes over brittle while warm and press lightly onto surface. Let cool.

Cheap labor--or free labor. For some reason I was always around a limb home. . . I got to babysit for free. . . to be blessed. . . I got to help with the yard work for free. . . . to be blessed. . . .I got to run the bookstore for free. . . . to be blessed. . . I have a feeling I missed the blessing as it was bestowed on those higher up on the food chain. So many people worked these limb homes. . . cleaning---driving--landscaping---events--none of it was paid, but I sure remember alot of effort for "perfection" going into these "jobs". A smart branch leader could pull off much of the same magic--if they were savvy enough or a big enough bully. Events for the rank and file believers were cheap--but let VP or LCM come to town and the red carpet was rolled out. . . I think that might be literal. There was always money for good coffee then. I really really didn't mind paying for the initial class, but after that it was a bloodsucking operation. What I remember is always having people in my home who needed a place to stay. We were volunteered so many times to "House" people who were passing through or basically homeless. Usually Way Corps. Always at our own expense. Like we had this endless fountain of cash to dole out. We were poor. This was on top of the free labor and ABS and sponsorship. They usually would tell me how to run my household. . . the best way to clean a shower and save time. . . how to fold my laundry. . . what to feed my kid. It wasn't until my second child that we finally lived on our own. I always shared expenses with other believers or lived in a Way Home. What I remember is the endless commitments. . . and working jobs with other believers. That was so we could keep our endless commitments---and we were usually paid next to nothing. Some of these guys really took advantage of the cheap labor pool. REV. JH comes to mind. He paid his guys next to nothing, but they were to be commited 150%. He cut their pay when he felt they needed a lesson or if he just felt like it. We had one branch leader who actually was a pretty nice guy, but we worked for him and business was another matter. Hubby was driving a work truck--got pulled over for the registration--it had lapsed--hubby got hauled in and fined . . . it was a big deal--he sat in a cell for a few hours. We paid the fine, but the branch leader would NOT reimburse us! He laughed. Not meanly, but somehow it was funny to him. We never got the money back. It was the branch leaders truck--he was responsible for the registration--he knew--he told hubby to take the truck!! We worked for him as an employee. It was all cheap--for us. . . the higher up you were the more advantage you could take.. . . . all the way to the top. The level of cheapness also depended on where you were. . . some places were more affluent than others. Better coffee.

This is kinda like your bark RG, but it is fudge--Candy Cane Fudge. I had a piece of fudge the other day---for the first time in years. . . . it was yummy! I am going to make some soon. Ingredients: 2/3 cup evaporated milk 1-2/3 cups granulated sugar 2 tbsp butter 1/2 tsp salt 2 cups miniature marshmallows 1.5 cups white chocolate chips 2 tsp mint extract 1/4 tsp red food coloring Preparation: 1. Prepare an 8x8 pan by lining it with aluminum foil and spraying the foil with nonstick cooking spray. 2. In a medium saucepan over medium-high heat, combine the sugar, salt, evaporated milk, and butter and stir until the sugar melts. 3. Bring the mixture to a boil and boil, stirring constantly, for 5 minutes. 4. After 5 minutes, remove from the heat and stir in the marshmallows, white chocolate chips, and mint extract. Stir quickly and vigorously to incorporate all of the marshmallows and chocolate. 5. As soon as the candy is smooth, sprinkle drops of red food coloring over the top and stir once or twice, creating red swirls. Do not overstir, otherwise the candy will turn pink! 6. Immediately scrape the candy into the prepared pan. Allow to cool at room temperature or in the refrigerator until solid. To serve, cut into 1-inch squares.

It is the idea that we had out of pocket expenses for such things. Most organizations pay for the cost of postage when you are DONATING to them! It is the arrogance. The GREED!! The money grubbing--mammon loving --hypocrisy!! White Dove were you ever a WOW? I mentioned missing meals and we did miss some--I DID lose weight as a WOW--I was reed thin at the ROA--We sent in our ABS to HQ instead of buying good healthy food. I am actually a bit jealous of Ham's tripe! We ate Mac and Cheese and lettuce with vinegar as a salad. It was pathetic! We had no money after we gave of our abundance! They took advantage of kids committed to serving God and willing to sacrifice to do it. The stamp? It is a form of usery at the lowest most vile level. Why didn't I do otherwise or leave? I thought I was serving God--and I was at the limb where the Limb Leader was breathing down my neck. . . Do you think any of those SOB's at HQ sacrificed? I flew on Ambassador One with HA once. He sat in the back of the plane--in a convienent cozy little compartment --swilling booze and being waited on!! Those guys lived well ABOVE the poverty level -- in SIN-- on the money WE sent in! Private jets--a fleet of cars--motorcycles--A BEAUTIFUL Chalet. . . buildings--grounds-- expensive suits. . .All paid for with OUR money(We paid to send in) and cheap or SLAVE labor. Irked doesn't cover it. But, I am glad you are smarter than the rest of us peons who still have a bad feeling about what happened. But, then again--IMHO such behavoir deserves a bit of anger. Would it make you happy to hear we are all stupid for doing it--and we all admire your sound judgment and reason? Is that the point of all this deflection from the real issue? Well, I will give you this much. . . .I was a very naive silly kid--I really thought I was doing right. . . that should clue you in to how CLUELESS I really was. Feel better?

I will try these. . . Thanks Another twist---you could add a 1/2 tsp of cardomom to the dough and then some to the sugar topping. I have done this with sugar cookies before and it is nice.

Stained Glass Candy This can make a pretty gift. 4 cups granulated sugar 1 3/4 cup light corn syrup 1 cup water 1 tablespoon desired flavored extract or 1 teaspoon flavoring oil (Lemon. Peppermint, Anise. . . whatever you like.) Food color, as desired Line a 15 x 11-inch baking pan with foil and lightly grease or sprinkle evenly with a light coating of powdered sugar. Set aside. In a medium pan combine sugar and corn syrup with water and cook over medium heat. Stir to dissolve sugar. Increase heat and bring to a boil. With a brush dipped in water, wash down any crystals that form on the sides of the pan. Boil rapidly until candy thermometer registers 300*F (150*C), hard-crack stage. Immediately remove from heat and stir in flavor extract and food color. Pour into prepared pan. Let cool completely. When hard, remove from pan. Break into pieces with kitchen mallet. Note: For multiple flavors and colors, divide candy mixture after cooking; flavor and color each as desired. Makes 2 1/2 pounds candy.

Some days I feel pretty unloveable. Today being one of them. Mark 2:17 17 When Jesus heard this, He told them, "Those who are well don't need a doctor, but the sick [do need one] . I didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Well, . . . I thought it was pretty cute. :)

I second that. . . We were NEVER told it was okay to take it out of ABS--I remember the drill as a WOW Family/Twig coordinator. Those stamps and MO's were out of pocket expenses. The whole thing was a pain in the neck. . . not to mention seeing money we could have used to eat with. . . going to Ohio. On the plus side. . . I went down a few sizes as a WOW.

When one is providing bibles in many different languages to people in other countries. . . like The Bible League. . . it costs money. When one is providing care packages to Christians and Muslims for the bare necessities and shipping them to places like Iraq and Afghanastain like Voice of the Martyrs . . . it costs money. Finding legal aid for prisoners of faith in other countries. . . cost big money When I get the down and out man on the street food and a warm coat. . . it costs me money. When any of us do good works. . . it costs money. I am steward of what God gives me. It isn't mine. . . but His. Bigger projects require greater funds. I do believe that God does have His hand in many such worthy projects. That relationship that fills us. . . will eventually spill over into these good works. It has no where else to go. The fact that a ministry or church is prosperous is not an indication of anything IMHO. Not of graft and not of goodness. You have people like VP. . . Benny Hinn and Joyce Myer and then there are people like Richard Wurmbrand. It is how they steward the money given to them. . . . . What do they do with it and for whom?. . . How do they raise it? How much is wasted? What do they take for themselves? As for PFAL? We were young, idealistic, and duped by a slick talker who tickled our ears. I guess the fact that we paid for it . . . is just one more slap upside the head. But. . . .good works can have overhead---Good works are the result of our Christian faith. When a few of us get together and organize, structure, and act on our faith. . . the results STILL can be good.

Just a thought since I can so relate to what you have written. . . .while you are looking for a church home. . . . there is a great place in Denton TX --too far for me to go every week (I am on the east coast)--Village Church. There is a young Pastor there --Matt Chandler--you can listen to his sermons by podcast for free--you need itunes. He addresses much of what you have written and seems pretty grounded. We love to listen. We then bring some of it to our church. . . the ideas---the understanding. I am leeryt of recommending anyone, but you may already have heard of the church. Here is the link. He will make you laugh, but better yet--he really challenges the idea of "Christ Americanized" while staying true to the Jesus of scripture. http://www.thevillagechurch.net/ I really hope you get a chance to check it out. BTW I was reading that Ghandi quote today. . . .

Okay, so who can afford him on the West Coast? Only the Angels if they get rid of Teixeira right? The only other teams who can afford him are the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox(Who have enough pitching) Cubs, and the Tigers are trying to dump everybody. . . If CC gets his 150mil first then the price for Burnett and the rest goes way up. Is the only reason you are not optimistic is because he wants to stay on the West Coast? Just curious. Once CC is signed than everyone else will start going quickly before the coffers are empty. Some teams will have to dump two or three salaries just to be in the running for him. The Red Sox have basically signed this kid from Japan--the Yankees may increase their offer even though they are claiming they won't---with Mussina retiring and Petite leaning towards Huston again. I think he may go to the Yankees?? With no effort being made to resign Giambi and Swisher being able to cover first as well as outfield. . . money is freed up.

I don't know if it is fair to say those who adhere to TWI doctrine are only guilty of being taken advantage of. . . There is enough out here now to enlighten even the most stubborn among us, that TWI is an aberant belief system. That sense of community and being connected seems to be a strong attraction for many, and rightly you have pinpointed how that can serve to keep one engaged. However earnest a seeker we once were. . . . when you go from a caring unbeliever with a modicum of decency and propriety to a judgemental jerk by way of "Christian Doctrine" it might be time to rethink things. I don't think we need to lose our humanity to continue in a community and certainly not to serve God. The only thing I know to be done is to be an example. . . doctrinal discussions are pointless when one has an answer for everything due to some expert INdoctrination. . . . but it sure used to make me VERY uncomfortable when I saw "Carnal Christians" actually living their faith in love and service. How they went and saw that concert and all those Christians there and walked away with that choice tidbit. . . is just telling. Keep inviting them---challenge them OUT of their comfort zone of "Community".