geisha779

WG, The Pastor you mentioned Mark D, has a mouth on him. He is alarming in many ways. NOT my favorite Pastor!! He and J Macarthur need to be taken small doses. I have the same issues with them. Don't get to worried about them. They can be great for ex-way to help snap them out of easy believeism, but if you listen to them too much they can make you feel like you will NEVER be good enough. . . and. . . .isn't that the point??? I went through this same thing. . . and from these same Calvinist preachers. . . I do have to say. . . I love Spurgeon though. . . if you read him he doesn't sound so much like these guys. Phil Johnson is another one you might hear about. . . He has the "Pyromanics" blog which houses a great deal of Spurgeon's work. Please don't let it bother you too much. It will start to drive you crazy. Listen to your instincts on this one. I do think they are good guys, but small doses. . . very small doses.

BTW Rascal, It is really healthy to question these things. To ask yourself what you believe, but more importantly, WHY you believe them. Maybe we find out. . . we don't really believe them. I still have lots of questions about things. . . yours about Job, were the SAME ones I asked myself. I did always feel for his first kids!! His wife made it BTW. Lot's of good stuff in that book. Took me awhile to come to terms with it. . .

"Nark" springs to mind. I hope they didn't need that five grand for little Joey's kidney transplant or to save their home from foreclosure. As long as TWI can take it from here. . . . sheeesh. Ebay will just pull the listing if TWI complains. Maybe they can use Craig's List next time.

Rascal, It is not difficult to be talked right out of believing the scriptures. In fact, I think for many ex-way it is probably a good thing for a time. Shocking? Not really. It can be the only way to get rid of that TWI taint sometimes. It wasn't faith in God to begin with. . . it was faith in a book. A yeah, Christianity is a faith. . . a reasonable one, but it is still faith. Jesus does ask us to count the cost before we believe. He says it is no picnic. Hence the terms, die daily. . . takeup your cross. . .suffer repraoch, endure hardship, and be a spectacle unto the world. Become a laughing stock. . . . persecution. . . chastening and scourging by Him. . . . subject to trials like Job, afflicted on every side. . . .conflicts without. . . fears within. Some people are even called to martyrdom. TWI and the prosperity gospel don't teach you the costs. It is not a cheap faith. It cost the Lord and it costs us. . . . Sometimes it is easier to cling to this life. A believers comfort is in the sovereignity of God. . . things often fall into place in a manner foreign to our understanding. . . confusing to us. There is comfort within though. . . . even in the midst of turmoil. Faith is a choice. . . a freewill choice. A worldview. . . there are many competing voices we hear. . . just up to us to choose which one to believe. Oh and MOST ancient cultures have a flood story.

I don't think there is cman. There is the account in Matthew 12 about blasphemy against the HS. I am not sure that is even possible today, as it was done when Jesus was on earth. It is interesting that blasphemy against Jesus, will be forgiven, but not against the HS. Not really too sure about this account. I think it is attributing the works of Jesus done by the power of the HS to the devil. It is pretty strong language anyway. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come," That is the other one I thought of indicating the HS and sins against Him.

It is a "Kingdom Ready" and "Hebraic Roots" type organization now, but still cut from the same cult cloth as TWI. . . IMHO. It is so interesting that both ex-TWI and ex-COG are attracted to this theology. Still on the outside of the church trying to "Fix" it and . . . still thinking they are living 1st century style. In many ways it seems to be an extreme backlash reaction to the ultra-dispensationalism of TWI theology. Maybe that is what attracts ex-twi to it? Vince has just set up a new kingdom . . . but he is still dwelling in the kingdom of cults.

Hi Bride, Not quite sure how that fits within the context of false teachers/prophets? It actually does say they bring in damnable heresies. . . . which is very strong language. I take it to mean. . . . heresies which damn. In other words. . . being lead astray. I think someone or a movement that is to correct error in the church would be something else entirely. The Reformation. . . . for instance. And yes. . . that was called heresy. At some point, we have to be familar enough with the genuine not to keep falling for the counterfeit. I hope! Kind of a big topic given our history. :)

Hey Jeff, I guess I have a little bit different take on the account than cman. I do understand what he is saying though. Like Bride said. . . This account links the OT and NT. It reveals the same God who doesn't abide sin. If you look at Joshua 7 and the account of Achan, they follow similar steps. I saw, I coveted, I took, I concealed. But, what is really interesting is the timing of both accounts. It seems that both were critical times in God's plan. He did not tolerate the hypocrisy that threatened His purpose. It also reveals the same God who can have burning anger toward sin. Joshua 7:26 26 Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the LORD turned from his fierce anger. Gods purposes are His own. He is God. Psalm 115 1-3 Not to us, O LORD, not to us but to your name be the glory, because of your love and faithfulness. 2Why do the nations say, Where is their God? 3 Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him. That is NOT to say, God doesn't care about what happened to us. . . He does care. He is still able to forgive and heal us. He is the creator of life. . . it belongs to Him. . . He is able to take care of all things, including all the unborn souls that TWI coerced from women with manipulation and guile. One day we will see them again. Remember, God wipes every tear from our eyes. We have to have faith that He is that big and that faithful. He can forgive our sins and heal our hearts. . . . . . nothing is too big for God. It can all be to His glory. VP's judgement is not idle. It may not have been a lightening bolt, but, it is as sure and exact as one. What is so telling is that God did not correct Him. . . He let him continue in his sins. That speaks to VP's heart. It was hardened. Do not be deceived "God is not mocked." It is God's appointed timing. . . that is why we don't give place to vengeance. Our faith is to be totally in Him and HIS ability. That is why it so hard not to be overcome by evil, but to overcome evil with good. It still drives me crazy sometimes that we fell for it. . . the pain and suffering caused by it all. . . . but, my comfort is in knowing God did not forsake us and is glorified in our deliverance.

Oldiesman Jiff(I think) has a low carb peanut butter. It is really good on celery sticks for a snack. Atkins has a low carb breakfast cereal. Their granola bar is really good. I agree. . . anything Atkins is good. Maybe it was because I was always looking for variety!! They have some low carb breads around, but that was a once in awhile thing. EAS has great low carb bars. I loved their brownie bars. The fruit is a nice idea, but full of natural sugar, so if you are eating low carb for weight loss. . . be careful. Now, each morning I have a smoothie with fresh orange juice(2 medium oranges) 1/2 cup of fresh blueberries, Pomegrante, grape, and cherry juice(all 100% organic) a slice of kiwi and mango. . . . a few flax seeds and something called Mind Drink added(Acai berry, mangosteen, goji. . .) It is made by Ultra international and excellent stuff. Lunch is usually salad and I juice some veggies and add a whole food supplement. It is called Soul Food and really full of good stuff. All natural. I try to get as many nutrients I can. You should check out the low carb peanut butter. .. . .usually it is in any good sized grocery store.

Hi Bride :) Yes, I really agree with you that had they not lied to the HS they would have been fine. I also agree that some Christians can be worldly and new to the faith. God certainly is merciful to us when this is the case, and He does work in us to strip that worldliness from us. If we belong to Him. To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— I guess I see it differently, but not entirely. These chapters are really building up to the persecution of the church while it is expanding. There are two forms of distress illustrated for us. . . persecution from without and trouble from within. What I see is Barnabas, who later travels with Paul, is he was changed from the inside outward. This is reflected in his act of wholehearted giving. Barnabas knew that the Holy Spirit was alive and real. They had just witnessed pentecost. Barnabas' integrity became well known in the early church. He was the one who won John Mark back to Paul. So we do know that from this very first act, Barnabas was a true believer. A&S were examples of those who were trying to look the same, but the change was not genuine. Hypocrisy. They concieved this plan and it doesn't say it was out of fear. In fact, Peter said Satan filled their heart. Think about the scriptures concerning those in the church who are false teachers. They love the praise of men more than the praise of God, external religious approval. There are reasons A & S might do this thing. They might not have even believed in the real presence of the Spirit of the living God. They could have believed in a intellectual way, but didn't understand he knew the thoughts of their mind. They may not have realized that He is a person who knows, feels, and acts on things. They may have counted on a "Grace" where God tolerates everything no matter how bad. I think the reason it was recorded was so we would have the example of both kinds of people in the church. It is interesting to note that God tolerated and used the pressure from the outside to cause the church to grow, but did not tolerate it from the inside. Two reactions to the church from this. . . more true believers were added to the church and the rest dared not join themselves to the church. Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him. A&S actually stand for the exact opposite. . . people who have not really been changed in their hearts, but still want a place in the church. It isn't real to them.. . . it is external. Anyway, that is what I see. :)

Yes doojable. . . Yes. People have made really impressive arguments on the "presumption of innocence" and what it means and where it is used. Why it need not be used here. These arguments are more than good enough to bring before a judge in a courtroom. I am really impressed by the fact that many here use such excellent reasoning skills. Must be backlash :) from the days of arrested development! Just kidding!! There are some bright and good people on this site. Well done. However, others still twist and bend meanings to suit a specific purpose. It gives me a real headache. People who say wrong is wrong. . . have to "prove" it?? It reminds me of TWI. . . that compassionless rhetoric. That "first breath" coldness of reasoning. It is perverse in my opinion. Really, it makes my tummy queasy. I just don't understand defending the "Rights" of a dead man who used the name and word of God to abuse innocents. What is there really to gain? Silence? That was what kept us in that whole mess for so long. . . the wonderful "lock box" of abuse. One rape is one "murder of the soul" too many. One coerced abortion is an abomination. One drunken group from a father or father figure is shameful and abusive. You can have it. . . defend it. . . and keep the perverse doctrine and "Doctor" which encouraged it. . . it is disgusting. I will pass.

I guess I see it a bit differently now Spectrum. I don't search for more "truth" about God. . . I seek God Himself. The person of Jesus Christ. That is who my relationship is with. . . He is the way, the TRUTH, and the life. Truth is a "who". . . not a "what". . . For me. . . it is about an abundance of Him. God is no respecter of gray matter. . . He protects the simple and the pure of heart will see God.

Here is a breakdown on the pathology of false teachers/prophets if anyone is interested. http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg54-45.htm The thing that struck me when I started looking at this topic in light of my time with TWI was that false teachers bring in damnable heresies. That is something to truly consider given our shared history. Sorry if this is a bit off topic of prophets?? The last bolded paragraph deals with the why. . . but money is also the issue of why. For gain. They are actually enemies of God. Just a few things from the article. "Warnings run throughout the Old and New Testaments because God knows His people can be led astray by false teaching if they aren't properly prepared for it. Also false teaching victimizes those who have never embraced the truth because they come under the illusion that they have found it. We are thus reminded of the danger of false teaching. They teach otherwise. . . The Greek word translated "teach otherwise" is heteros didaskalia, a heterodox teaching rather than an orthodox teaching." False teachers are marked by an attitude of pride. The Greek word translated "proud" (tuphoomai--also used in 1 Tim. 3:6) speaks of being engulfed in smoke. Here the perfect passive form is used, which means they're in a settled state of being engulfed in their own smoke. False teachers are invariably arrogant. . . . . An arrogant person is inflated with his own sense of self-importance. Peter says false teachers are so arrogant, "they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:10). Rather, they speak "out arrogant words of vanity". Jude says they reject authority (v. 8) and speak arrogantly (v. 16).. . . . "Knowing nothing." It doesn't matter how many Ph.D.'s or how much training such people have; they still don't know anything (1 Tim. 1:7). But they are inflated over what they think they know. They parade their imagined intelligence, scholarship, superior understanding, deeper insights, and religious acumen, but the truth is they are ignorant. "Doting about questions and disputes of words." The Greek text could be translated this way: "Having a sick craving for questions and word battles." They have a disease--a morbid preoccupation with useless questions and word battles. They make a fuss about terminology. The Greek word translated "questions" (z[ma]et[ma]esis, means "idle speculations." It is nothing more than pseudo-intellectual theorizing. They also get into "disputes of words" (Gk., logomachia, "word battles"). They battle each other over terminology. Their minds know nothing, so they engage themselves in battles over semantics that won't get anywhere. "Men of corrupt minds." False teachers have unregenerate minds--minds that have never been transformed. In Romans 8:7 Paul says their "carnal mind is enmity against God." It's filled with earthly wisdom that fights against God (James 3:15; 4:4). In Romans 1:28 Paul says, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind." Their mental faculties don't function in the moral or spiritual realm. They do not react positively to truth. In 1 Corinthians 2:14 Paul calls them natural men who "receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God." The pathological source of their disease is a corrupt mind. The deadly virus of ignorant, damning words comes out of an evil mind. They don't understand God and they can't understand truth. Ephesians 4:18 says their understanding is darkened, and is alienated from God. Colossians 1:21 says they are "alienated and enemies in [their] mind by wicked works." False teachers possess alienated, wicked, darkened, and corrupt minds. They've never been transformed. They have not received the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:16). They may have many theological degrees, and may be involved in religious activities, but their minds are corrupt."

Oldiesman, About 6 years ago I lost weight on a low carb diet. One of the things I used to have every once in awhile was a rootbeer float. It was soooo good! Breyers have a low carb ice cream. I would get the vanilla and then Waist Watchers diet rootbeer. No carbs. A small scoop of the ice cream(Made with Splenda)and the rootbeer in a tall glass was such a great low carb and sugar free treat. The other thing I would do was cream cheese in celery sticks for an evening snack. Fruit 2..0 is a great drink made with Splenda. Their grape is really good. Slimfast has a peanut butter and chocolate low carb bar that is really yummy and very filling. Russels has low carb chocolates made with Splenda. . . they are really good. I have more :) . . . I lost weight and learned to live with less carbs. You can get relly creative with the low carb sugar free diet. What helps me maintain a good weight now is avoiding empty calories. I had to learn to eat healthy. Now, sugar and processed foods taste really bad to me. I feel better eating healthy!!

Cynic, Here is a link to the book I mentioned, The Knowledge of the Holy. Like John Piper, AW Tozer writes about the attributes of God and it is great stuff to ponder. Anyone can read the book online. http://www.geocities.com/johncw7000/tozerk...eoftheholy.html

Why are the "Smart" people are supposed to answer Pond's question? Why are the "Smart" people supposed to go digging through the forums for her? I asked Pond a question and she didn't answer me. That is okay I suppose, no one says you HAVE to respond. But, Rascal and Waysider need to go digging up accounts posted in the last nine years to satisfy her curiousity?? Do you REALLY think you made a point here Pond? I don't think so. Sometimes this place really creeps me out.

Jeff, The reason I think they didn't really believe is because the account says. . . "A certain man and his wife" it doesn't say he was a believer. He was hanging out with them. . . . I could be wrong but. . . . . The previous chapter finishes up by telling us how the believers were filled with the Holy Spirit. . . . Acts 4:31 "And when they prayed they were all filled with the Holy Spirit". . . .the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and one soul. . . . Acts 4 ends by naming Barnabas who sold his land and brought the money to the Apostles feet. . . It gives you the example of a true believer. . . Acts 5 goes into "A certain man.. . " The account does tell us what was in their hearts. . . that . . . With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. Then Peter said, Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't we just get done reading everyone else was filled with the Holy Spirit. . . not Satan? Then Peter says. . . Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God. Which clues us into what Ananias was filled with and about. I guess he wanted a church named after him? He wasn't filled with the Holy Spirit. He was a fake. Most false teachers come from the church. . . where else are you going to find false believers? People can intellectually assent to Christ. That does not mean they are true believers. Acts 8 says Simon the Sorcerer believed and then turned around and tried to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit. People can assent with their minds. . . they can even agree with you. . . but, we are to believe with our hearts.

Wacky Funster, What a GREAT name!! I love it! For me, Twinky and Now I see said it best. . . funny though, instead of asking me what I was going to do with what I learned in TWI. . . Jesus asked me another question when I left. "Who do you say I am?" If No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. What was all the great knowledge we had about an incomprehensible God in TWI? How many were crucified? What we did know was given to us by carnal men with eyes full of lust and greed. False teachers. Not likely they had the inside track. Darkness to the intellect But sunshine to the heart. Frederick W. Faber 2 Corinthians 3:16 says. . . But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. I had a veil over my eyes in TWI. . . IMHO many of us never truly turned to the Lord in TWI. . their theology made it near impossible. The "absent Christ" and all that. As for JAL. . . my mama said. . . if you can't say something nice about someone. . . .

This recipe is from Nigella. . . Ricotta Hotcakes 9 ounces (1 cup plus 2 Tbsp ricotta cheese) ½ cup low fat milk 2 large eggs, separated ¾-1 cup all-purpose flour (add more to make batter thicker if necessary) 1 tsp baking powder Pinch salt Canola oil for the cooking the cakes o the griddle Add ricotta, milk, and egg yolks into a bowl and mix well to combine. Stir in the flour, baking powder, and salt, and gently whisk to make a smooth batter.In a glass or metal bowl, whisk egg whites until they become foamy, then fold them into the ricotta mixture. Heat the oil on a griddle or large frying pan. Pour batter onto the griddle. Cook for about 1 minute until golden, then flip and cook another minute. Keep the cooked hotcakes warm by tenting them with foil on a large warmed plate, while you make the rest.\ Peaches and nectarines in honey syrup. . . . ¾ cup water 1/8 cup good honey 2 Tbsp sugar A few dashes each of ground cinnamon and nutmeg ¼ tsp pure vanilla extract 1 large ripe peach, sliced 1 large rip nectarine, sliced Combine the water, honey , and sugar in a pot. Bring to a boil, stirring until the sugar dissolves. Add the cinnamon, nutmeg, and vanilla. Continue to simmer for 3-5 minutes. Add the peaches and nectarines, lower heat to a simmer, and cook for about 6-8 minutes, until fruit is soft but not mushy. The syrup should start to reduce and thicken a bit. Allow to cool slightly before adding to the hotcakes. When ready, place hotcakes on a plate, layering with cooking fruit and drizzling with more of the honey syrup. Garnish with a couple of slices of ripe but uncooked fruit slices, if desired. OR you can try a Thyme-Infused Syrup like the Paula Deen recipe suggests for Ricotta Pancakes. . . 1 cup of sugar 1 1/2 tbsp of cornstarch 2 cups of water 20 stems of fresh thyme In a small saucepan, combine sugar and cornstarch with a whisk. Gradually add water, whisking until combined. Bring mixture to a boil over high heat, and boil for 2 minutes. Add thyme stems, reduce heat, and simmer for 10 minutes. Remove from heat and strain, discarding thyme stems. Cool completely. Can be refrigerated up to 3 weeks.

I just always assumed English is not Pond's first language. I PROMISE, I am not being rude, but that has been my thought when reading her posts. Pond, is English your first language? It might help others to know if this is not the case. Sometimes your posts are confusing to read. . . I am not assigning motives to your words. . . just seeing if maybe it is a language issue??

Cynic, What an amazing site and reference to have . . . as you know. . . I am interested in reformed systematic theology. I bet that professor who answered you was never even in a cult! So, thank-you! The question I had was something the article mentioned about Amillennialism. Gerrhardus Vos wrote the article and it now makes sense he would say what he did. I was just a bit curious. I am also familar with Meredith Kline. In part because you had mentioned him on another post and I started to look him up. :) Sabbatarian, British-Israel, Certain Messianic groups, Resoration theology, STIF(or any ex-twi splinter) http://www.michaelroodministries.com/cal_art6.htm Sacred Name, most former COG, Israeli Identity, and especially the Christian Identity movement, are things I do not find credible sources for understanding God. Other obviously disagree. Thanks Cynic, it is nice when you pop in here and share some sound resources with us.

Cynic, Those are excellent articles and a great site. When you have some time please do come back, I have a few questions and bet you could help me out. One of the articles mentioned the thousand year reign. Maybe you could clarify this for me from the reformed perspective. We are servants of the king and in the kingdom NOW. Those who have been redeemed, thanks for pointing this out. Just curious, have you read any AW Tozer. I am reading The Knowledge of the Holy, for the second time. Really amazing book. If you haven't read it, I bet you would enjoy it.

Looks like Nomar found a home too. I still remember my shock when Theo got rid of him in Boston. That WAS a good year anyway! :)

Which I also think was part of the HS teaching of spirit on and spirit in. I may be wrong. VP never did speak much to the parables or the mystery of the kingdom. I do remember. . it was taught like Mark said. . .held in abeyance. That was part of the ultra dispensationalist theology VP subscribed to. He was pretty anti-semetic and it showed in his understanding. I wonder if that motivated him? He taught that the "lost" tribes were something else today. . . . There is more than one school of thought on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

Hi What the Hey, This article might help you to understand what Mark is trying to say. I disagree with him that it hasn't happened yet. . . I think in part it has. We are being readied for the Kingdom. Anyway, John Piper has some great teachings on this topic. If you are interested. . . . . http://www.desiringgod.org/Search/?search=kingdom+of+God This is copied with permisson. Luke 17:20-21 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Is the kingdom of God a future reality to be hoped for or a present reality to experience now? That's today's question. The answer is that it is partly present and partly future. Many of its blessings are here to be enjoyed now; but many of them are not yet here. Some of its power is available now but not all of it. Some of the curse and misery of this old age can be overcome now by the presence of the kingdom. But some of it cannot be. The decisive battle against sin and Satan and sickness and death has been fought and won by the King in his death and resurrection, but the war is not over. Sin must be fought, Satan must be resisted, sickness must be prayed over and groaned under (Romans 8:23), and death must be endured until the second coming of the King and the consummation of the kingdom. Now I want you to see this clearly in the New Testament because it is extremely important for your faith. It will inspire you with hope that there is a great and glorious future yet in store for all believers. It will deepen your confidence that the glory of your future in the kingdom is secured by precious past down payments of that very kingdom (Romans 8:32!). It will give you a handle on why so much amazing kingdom power is being unleashed in the world, and yet why so much of sin and Satan and sickness and suffering remains. If you get a handle on the presence and the future of the kingdom of God, you will find yourself on a pathway of spiritual power, which might include the power to perform signs, and will definitely include the equally remarkable power to suffer patiently the cross of grief and pain (Colossians 1:11). So let's look at the passages of Scripture that show the kingdom of God to be both present and future. The Kingdom of God Is Present Our text, Luke 17:20–21, is a clear statement that Christ's own coming is the coming of the kingdom. Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There! for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.'" First, Jesus begins to correct a misunderstanding of the kingdom—namely, that it would come with such observable signs that it would be unmistakable: Rome would be overturned, Israel would be vindicated, and an earthly kingdom would be established. Jesus said, "No, it is not coming in a way that can be observed like that. There is a mystery about the coming of the kingdom. It is here in your midst without those kinds of observable signs. It is here because I am here. I am the arrival of the kingdom, even though I will not overturn the Romans or set up an earthly kingdom (yet!)." Another clear statement about the presence of the kingdom is Matthew 12:28 (cf. Luke 11:20). The Pharisees accuse Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub (v. 24). But Jesus has a very different interpretation of what's happening. He says in verse 28, "If it is by the power of the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." When Jesus does battle with Satan by the Spirit of God, and begins to plunder the strong man's house (v. 29), freeing people from his bondage, the powers of the kingdom are at work and the kingdom is already present. The Kingdom of God Is Not Yet Present But there are passages that make it very clear that the kingdom is not yet present. For example, in Luke 19:11ff. Jesus tells a parable to make the point that the kingdom is not yet here. Verses 11–12: As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. He said therefore, "A nobleman went into a far country to receive a kingdom and then return." He was near Jerusalem. In other words they thought he was about to make his move on the power center of the land and set up an earthly kingdom. That was the common conception of the coming of the kingdom—it would be with the kind of signs and wonders that would result in the destruction of all Israel's enemies and establish a new reign of peace and righteousness in the world. But Jesus told a parable to make clear that the kingdom is not coming that way now—it would be a long time in the future. Verse 12: "A nobleman went into a far country to receive a kingdom and then return." In other words, Jesus is going back to heaven and will be gone some time before he returns to establish his kingdom in power and glory. Make no mistake, the coming of the kingdom is still future! The "Mystery" of the Kingdom So the kingdom has come according to Matthew 12:28 and Luke 17:21; and the coming of the kingdom is still future according to Luke 19:11–12 and many other texts. This is puzzling. It threw the Pharisees into confusion. It took John the Baptist off guard (Matthew 11:2–6). It caused one crowd to want to throw Jesus off a cliff (Luke 4:29) and another want to make him king (John 6:15). It baffled Pilate when Jesus was on trial (John 18:36–37). It left the apostles confused and hopeless between Good Friday and Easter (Luke 24:21). Behind this confusion was what Jesus called the "mystery [or secret] of the kingdom." Let's turn to Matthew 13 and see how the parables of the kingdom unfold the mystery of the kingdom for us. What is mysterious about the kingdom is that it has come partly but not fully. There are hints about this in the Old Testament (e.g., Isaiah 53—the suffering servant). But by and large the Old Testament does not clearly separate the two comings of Christ. It sees one great day of the Lord coming when God would deal finally with sin and defeat his enemies and gather his people into a kingdom of peace and righteousness and joy and make the earth and the heavens new and glorious with the Messiah ruling forever and ever. But it didn't make clear that this day of the Lord—the coming of the kingdom—would happen in two stages: first, with Jesus coming as a suffering servant to atone for sin, and second, with Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This is the mystery (the secret) of the kingdom—the arrival of the kingdom in a preliminary, small way in advance of the final consummation when all the enemies would be defeated and all sin and satanic power and sickness and suffering would be gone forever. The mystery, as George Ladd puts it, is "fulfillment without consummation." Fulfillment of the kingdom is here; but consummation of the kingdom is not. Many kingdom blessings can be experienced today; many are reserved for the consummation and the coming of Jesus. Jesus' Teaching About the Mystery in Parables Let's read from the parables how Jesus teaches about the mystery of the kingdom. Notice Matthew 13:11. Jesus says to his disciples, "To you it has been given to know the secrets [mysteries] of the kingdom of the heaven." Further down look at verses 16–17, "But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. Truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear and did not hear it." You are seeing the fulfillment of things they longed to see. The kingdom has come, but there is a mystery. Not everyone is recognizing it. It's not what they expected. It's here, but the way it's here is a mystery. That is the mystery. That's what these parables in Matthew 13 are meant to show. The Parable of the Sower First, the parable of the sower: verses 18–19, "Hear the parable of the sower. When anyone hears the word of the kingdom . . . " four different things can happen: Satan can snatch it; the heat of trouble can scorch it; the thorns of care can choke it; or it can bear fruit in good soil. The mystery here is that the Word of the kingdom—the gospel of the kingdom, "Our God reigns!" (Isaiah 52:7)—is not sweeping the whole world before it. It's here with power to save some—but three-forths of the kingdom preaching seems to be aborting. That was not expected to happen when the Messiah arrived to say, "The kingdom is at hand. Our God reigns!" This is the mystery of the kingdom. The Parable of the Wheat and Tares Then look at the parable of the wheat and tares in verses 24ff. "Another parable he put before them, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.'" An enemy sows bad seed and wheat and tares grow up together. And Jesus says that's a picture of the kingdom. Sons of the kingdom (v. 38) and sons of the evil one side by side till the harvest—the day of judgment. The interpretation is given in verses 37ff. Notice verse 41. At the end of the age it says, "The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire." This is the mystery of the kingdom—a kingdom existing for some time in this world with righteous (v. 43) and evil in it side by side until the consummation. This was not expected. The kingdom was to come with total power to destroy the wicked immediately and vindicate the righteous. But Jesus says it has arrived. There is fulfillment. But the consummation, the final separation waits for the second coming of the Son of Man (v. 41). The Parable of the Mustard Seed Look at the parable of the mustard seed in vv. 31–32, "The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field; it is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches." The mystery of the kingdom is that the kingdom came in Jesus like a mustard seed and not a military coup. It will some day be a huge and mighty tree. But the mystery is that the kingdom has come into the world without the cataclysmic transformation most expected. The Parable of the Fishing Net Skip down to the last parable of the chapter, verses 47–50, the parable of the fishing net. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net which was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; when it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into vessels but threw away the bad. So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire. The mystery of the kingdom, again, is that as the net—the power of the kingdom—draws men into its sway, it draws good and bad. Only when the net is up on shore at the close of the age will the good and the bad fish be separated. Notice carefully: the separation described here is not between the fish which didn't get caught in the net of the kingdom and those which did. That's not the point of this parable. The separation here is between two kinds of people who are swept into the net of the kingdom. One kind is kept. The other is cast into the fire. So the mystery of the kingdom is not only that the kingdom is at first limited in its scope and its effect in the world (it's a mustard seed), but also the mystery of the kingdom is that the people who come under the power of God's kingdom are, as we say, a mixed bag. Some are true disciples. And some are hypocrites. The point of today's message is that the kingdom of God is present and future. There has been fulfillment, but there has not been consummation. This is the mystery of the kingdom. And it leads to two brief applications, one an encouragement, the other a warning. Two Applications First, the warning: beware of insisting that God demonstrate dimensions of the kingdom now which he has reserved for the consummation. The kingdom now is limited in its scope and effects. And beware of assuming that all who are swept into the power of God's kingdom are the children of the kingdom. The power of the kingdom gathers many (Matthew 7:22) into its net that will be cast out in the end because they loved healing and not holiness; they loved power and not purity; they loved wonders and not the will of God. And finally the encouragement: the kingdom really has arrived. Unprecedented fulfillments of God's purposes are in the offing. The King has come. The King has dealt with sin once for all in the sacrifice of himself. The King sits at the Father's right hand and reigns now until all his enemies are under his feet. The King's righteousness is now already ours by faith. The King's Spirit is now already dwelling in us. The King's holiness is now already being produced in us. The King's joy and peace have now already been given to us. The King's victory over Satan is now already ours as we use the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God. The King's power to witness is now already available to us. And the King's gifts—the gifts of his Spirit—are now already available for ministry. And now with a sober awareness of the mystery of the kingdom—present yet future; fulfilled but not consummated—let us go on as a church to seek the kingdom first—to discover all we yet should be for the salvation of lost sinners and the glory of King Jesus! Let me just add this thought. Israel asked God for a King. God was not too pleased with this. . . . . He is their King.They wanted another. He warned them and then gave them what they wanted. When the Lord comes back to reign in His kingdom. . . He is King. Things are restored as they should have been.. . with God reigning in their midst through Jesus. . . God in the flesh. . . as King.