geisha779

So, what about Pedro? What about the rest of the unsigned pitchers. . . . is one of the small market teams going to grab Pedro cheap? He may have to show some grace and do a Schilling. . . or did I miss something? Any other free agent players like Frank Thomas out there? Is Joba going to start the year in the bullpen or can they squeeze him in the rotation? What is the deal with Miguel Tetejeda? Will he play this year? Although hay field baseball is our family tradition. . . every birthday or cook out. . . . when the "Big Boys" play, . . . . that is still baseball in my book. A special feeling and excitment being at the park. . . no matter where I am. . . Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, or Boston, it is still baseball and these guys give me lots of thrills. :) Nice weather yesterday and that spring. . . . baseball. . . coming back to life feeling was in full swing. Hey, this is how I live year to year. . . . can't tell me it is better playing in the hay field or more "Real" . . . just different. . . the Red Sox are almost like family around here.

WG, This is a link to Matthew Henry's commentary which explains these verses in relation to false teachers. http://mhcw.biblecommenter.com/john/10.htm

There are moral and important reasons why watchmen stand guard against groups like TWI and LHIM. They have to do with the difference between right and wrong. . . we were experts at blurring those lines in TWI. . . I just think it is well past time to get a handle on it.

IMHO it is called a conscience. . . with the 20 year time and distance being able to distinguish between right and wrong. . . having a moral code or ethical standard upon which to base one's opinions. It does sting when someone stands up and says "Gee, this is wrong". . . but, it is worse when they actually have the ethics on their side. NOT continuing in the same false religious circles adds credence to DWBH's words. That shows some essemblance of morality. That is what makes his posts credible for goodness sake. Oh, but Lord forbid we call em like we see em!! Might actually offend an ex-faithful. Sometimes the blurred lines here. . . are too reminiscent and down right creepy. TWI was and remains an abusive cult. . . the offshoots. . . have their roots in and founders FROM this abusive cult. I don't care what flavor of the month aberrant faith they practice. . .whatever they "Pick" is going to come from these same. . . . rotten blind roots.

I think. . . . . and I may have my "Big Boys" mixed up. . . . but, wasn't Vince was an assistant manager at a MR STEAK. . . Hey, his star was on the rise anyway. To go from that. . . .to a podunk Ohio based cult . . . . to running his own "Hebraic Roots" church. . . beats flipping burgers I guess. Kinda makes you wonder about these offshoot guys. They really act like they are doing God a big favor with these off beat little groups. Where else are ex-cult members going to land without them. A good-solid-sound church with a qualified member of the clergy to help heal. . . . maybe?

Oldiesman said: "You may state that for yourself, but using "we" makes you all knowing and judging of other folks' hearts, minds and commitments. That'd be rather presumptuous and judgmental I would think. I also think it'd be a disparagement and put down of folks who quite likely are being accused of something falsely." Geeze, take a breath Oldiesman---maybe I was just using the "Royal" we. . . . "We" the Queen of England. . . . blah, blah, blah. . .

It is good to have a hobby.

I just reread my post and wanted to add that I do understand how we were transformed into what we became. I read the "Snapping" thread and it floored me. However, for me, the transformation was so ugly, I have had to come to terms with it. Taking the time to look at what I became, the "whys", and what it is I really wanted in a relationship with God, has been difficult. Really painful. Coming to terms with the things I did while in TWI and justifying it with scripture, hurt. It is not enough for me anymore to say. . . I wanted to know God. I really don't think I did. But please bear in mind. . . that is me. As for the atheist comment, please don't take it the wrong way. . . it was meant in a nice way. We were suppose to be moral. . . we had a belief that was suppose to transform us. . . my point was. . . it didn't work, and you all were often better moral examples with no faith!!

I did meet the occasional sincere and good person in TWI. Usually an "old-timer" out of the Jesus movement. Speaking from my own experience, I did initially want to know God, but what attracted me to TWI was that I could know Him and He would give me a "More than Abundant Life". Stuff, Stuff, Stuff. Which BTW, I never saw. What I got was grace, that sin might abound, and I LIKED IT! It was never about me serving God, but Him serving me. Where were the classes on serving your fellow man, loving your neighbor? Who was your neighbor? Other people in TWI and those we could corral into taking the class? Those who didn't we dropped like a hot potato, including members of our own family. After all, we were concerned with the true "Household." I went from a "Unbeliever" who knew the difference between right and wrong, into a "Follower of the Way" who couldn't tell you abortion, foul sailor language, drinking in excess, smoking like a chimney, and whacking my kids with a spoon was wrong. I guess I didn't really want to know God and serve Him that badly, I was happy just to renew my mind to evil. I could say bless you and offer you a "holy kiss" with one side of my mouth and trash you like a tornado right after twig. Yep, that was me. What is interesting is I could do all this while quoting scriptures!! When tragedy befell one of us, it was blame the devil, but in reality we blamed the victim and their lack of believing. Way to pull together. We were not even good cult members, much less good samaritans. All in all, I just learned this from most everyone else, I was not alone. This my experience anyway. I have had to deeply examine this in myself. It has not always been easy or fun. Repentance was a dirty word in TWI. I am sorry for who I became. If I had really wanted to SERVE God in the beginning of my journey, I would have. I served myself and a cult. God was there to serve me. You know something is really wrong, when the atheist is a better moral example than we were. (No offense to the atheist, I still believe this is often the case) My point is. . . talk was cheap in TWI. Just one more thing, I may have had a hunger to know God, but it wasn't too difficult to be satisfied with sin instead. I justified my behavior for many years, I don't justify my past anymore, especially my TWI years. BUT, others experience may be different, for me it has been an often painful road of self-examination. I was a mean little Wayfer.

Yep, just keep telling yourself that. . . .

Yeah, I forgot, you are the exception. . . .

Someone may have already pointed this out. . . sorry if it is superfluous, but in Massachusetts the DMR is the Department of Mental Retardation. A part of Health and Human Services. . I imagine it is like that in other states as well. The term itself is descriptive and has been used in behavior plans and such to indicate mild, moderate, or severe mental retardation. Has this changed?

It probably would not be as hard as you think OM. Consider what it means to make someone Lord in your life? Obedience. . . the suggestion of the MOG is tantamount. . . . who one listens to(Who taught us these "great" truths). . . who one considers the final authority. . . who one follows. . . who one emulates. . . Now, if the actual Lord is absent(out of the picture). . . it is not hard to consider someone else in His place. It was not blatant. . it was subtle. Without mouthing the words VP is Lord. . . our actions said exactly that. . . we considered Him in place of the absent Christ. . . who we shamefully relugated to the end of a prayer or the means to an end. Seems we all to some extent did replace Jesus with VP or some other wannabe leadership. That is what happens in most groups like TWI. . . that is why they usually fall apart when the big guy departs this earth. . . unless they get an equally charasmatic new leader, or they splinter into little groups. . . each with their own little MOG. Just my opinion.

Most of that I don't have issue with, but a few things I wonder about. I believe in the perseverence of saints. . . it is scriptural. I can see coming fully to Christ. . . having been drawn by the Holy Spirit. I now understand that. . . However, Jesus is ABLE to finish the good work in us. . . "Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested." What are common operations of the spirit. . . how does one partake in PART of it? Because they are not of the elect?? What about. . . "Whosoever will". . . may come?? OR "Come unto me ALL who are heavy laden. . . " "I will that all men be saved. . . " "The call is to you and to your children and to many who are afar off" . . . "Jesus tasted death for all men" . . . It is not by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, but now it is PLUS election?? I understand true saving faith, which is unlike what we had in TWI. I get enemies of the cross. . . distinctions between people. . . but, Christ died for the ungodly, and we were all ungodly enemies. I know that we can't save ourselves. . . we are drawn to Jesus by the Holy Spirit. . . but eternity has been put into the heart of all. Eccl. 3:11 "He has set eternity in their heart." Christ's death is big enough for the sins of the world. . . for all men. And I know not all will be saved. . . Here is the thing I get confused about. . . freewill. . . He wants us to come to Him feely? No? Too much for me to understand, but, the Calvinist view of the doctrine of election, seems rather hopeless. . . it discourages people, yet, I know that our problems are not too big for God. He is able. This topic makes the trinity. . . which I actually do see. . . look like childs play. To Add: Monergism is a great site as is http://theologica.ning.com/

That is it EXACTLY. God will allow things for a time. . . not causes them. He can do no evil. He can mean something for good though. He can use it for good. He is sovereign. . . or as Mark said. . . in charge. Look at what happened to Job. It was awful and painful. . . but look at what Job got. . . He . . . through his trials came to TRULY KNOW God. That is a huge thing. . . huge. The devil still had to ask permission though. . . just like with the sifting of Peter. Jesus prayed Peter's faith would endure. Trials reveal our faith(Usually lacking) and can strengthen it. That is what James is all about. It is also important to remember it is God's purpose, not ours. We should be seeking His will, no matter what the cost. There is usually a cost. This life is fleeting. A blink. God is getting us ready for eternity with Him. Trials DO teach us. They do. As painful as things can be. . . God can make some good come out of them. Not that the trials themselves are good. But, He didn't promise us an easy ride. He promised us troubles, but more importantly that He would be with us. To know Him is better than this life and all it has to offer. Sometimes it takes tribulation to come to Him. We can be joyful when this happens. . . we get the greater prize.

WG, I don't believe God gives you illness. I never said that. I said He was not the author of evil. Are you going to tell me that life is not full of trial and tribulations?? Problems?? It is. Plenty of troubles to go around. Why is it God cannot deliver us from them and take the bad and bring good from it? He can, and in the process cause us to grow. I really don't believe He brings it on us. That is just odd. There is a whole health and wealth gospel out there that says we can all drive Beamers and live rich. I don't buy it. Some of us will suffer. WG, I had a sick kid. Born 29 weeks gestation by emergency C-section. He had meconium ileus and it had ruptured while he was inside of me. He had surgery the hour he was born. He weighed less than 2 pounds. Trust me when I say, I know what it is like. He had Cystic Fibrosis. I don't blame God, or think He caused it. But, I trust in Him. That He is able. That nothing happens that is out of His control. You know what was worse? Thinking my believing or lack of caused it. Nearly drove me crazy. Seriously. It was when we were leaving TWI and it was a very dark time. I do think He can deliver us from trial and teach us. . . even years later. . . sometimes we don't always get the why's. That is why the high view of God is comforting. Faith in something greater than ourselves. A sovereign God. Some days I just hang on to that for dear life. . . . :) Mark, Not sure why RC and others hold that position. It has to do with their view of God's sovereignty. I probably believe more along the lines you do about predestination. I don't actually have a firm understanding about it. :)

Well, if you are on the B list, I am right there with you. I am not good enough either and that is why I need a Savior. If my hope is in this life only. . . I am going to be pretty miserable. Trials often reveal a faith that is lacking. They build endurance. Read James. . . we are to be thankful for them. In Job, he went through all that horror. . . but in the end what is it he said? "I have heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eyes see you." I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted. You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?' Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. 4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.' 5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." I guess in a way, it just depends on what we really want. . . and how much we want it. . . . it doesn't come cheap. . . knowing God by faith. . . there is a price. No one likes trials. . . but we can be thankful for what they teach us. Very thankful and actually rejoice in them because we know God will deliver and teach. God is not the author of evil, but who says He can't use it for good? Who knows what it takes to bring us to true saving faith or repentance? I do know God is sovereign. . . able. . . and His ways are past finding out sometimes. Anything taken to extreme is kinda crazy. You get sick. . . you pray for healing, and God is able in all ways to heal us. We are refined by fire. Revelation3 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. God is sovereign. . . Nothing gets past Him IMHO. I guess people take it to extreme. . . . cancer is a bad thing. . . a sick or dying child is a life altering horrible thing. . . but God is able to turn all bad to good and His glory. . . don't you agree with that? Who said we wouldn't have suffering in this life? Certainly not God. . . He said to count the cost before you believe. BUT, it isn't all about suffering. . . it is about rejoicing in Him who is able. ******We can't think our problems are too big for God. . . all this has to be in context of the gospel, that the whole purpose is Jesus Christ. . . . Hebrews 4: 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Jesus feels WITH us not against us!! He is in this with us. These trials can be so that we will come to Him. Our confidence is in Him. The purpose of trials is to come to Him. . . . NOT ashamed. It is all going to sound pretty bad unless Jesus is in His proper place in our lives. . . it is going to frustrate and hurt unless we really know Jesus. We are to be strong in the Lord and the power of His might. . . that is why Driscoll is so off. . . We can't boast or glory in anything except the symbol of humiliation. . . the cross!! Make sense?? His strength is made perfect in our weakness. . . including our weakness to understand the deep things of God. Maybe you really are in the right church?? My humble opinion anyway. :)

WG, Last time I checked, Methodists are Christians too. Although I appreciate the high view of God in Reformed theology, I too have a problem with this. It really can get ugly, so I hope other than to get miffed, it doesn't upset you. I went through this as well, and it can really be upsetting. There are people like RC Sproul and even Spurgeon who explain it in a better way. I just know you can only take some of these guys in small doses. I think in the end, we give God the glory for Him finding us, since He is the iniator of all things. Here is the thing. . . you are found. . . right? I can understand getting offended, I just don't want it to worry you too much. Geisha Here is a bit by RC Sproul who I enjoy reading sometimes. . . might help. When the Bible speaks of predestination, it speaks of God's sovereign involvement in certain things before they happen. He chooses in advance certain things to take place. For example, he predestined creation. Before God created the world, he decided to do it. Usually when people think of predestination, they think about whether or not somebody was hit by an automobile on a given day because God had decided ahead of time that that should happen on that day. Theologically, the principal issue of predestination in the Bible has to do with God selecting people for salvation beforehand. The Bible clearly does teach that somehow God chooses people for salvation before they're even born. Virtually every Christian church believes that, because this concept is so clearly taught in Scripture. Paul refers to Jacob and Esau. Before they were even born, before they had done any good or evil, God decreed in advance that the elder would serve the younger: "Jacob have I loved; Esau have I hated." The point there is that God had chosen certain benefits for one of those two before they were even born. The real debate is, On what basis does God predestine? We know that he predestines, but why does he predestine, and what is the basis for his choices? Many Christians believe that God knows in advance what people are going to do, what choices they're going to make, and what activities they're going to be involved in. As he looks through the corridor of time and knows what choices you will make, for example, he knows that you will hear the gospel. He knows whether you will say yes or no. If he knows that you are going to say yes, then he chooses you for salvation on the basis of his prior knowledge. I don't hold that position. I think that God does this sovereignly, not arbitrarily, not whimsically. The only basis I see for predestination in the Bible is the good pleasure of his own will. The only other reason is to honor his only begotten Son. The reason for his selection is not in me and not in you and not in some foreseen good or evil, but in his own sovereignty.

DWBH, Ebay is a great place to buy and sell, nothing to be wary about. They have a great buyers protection program. . . used to be they would refund your money and take it from the sellers account. Not sure if they still do, but the protections are in place.. . . Just buy from an established seller. I used to sell Geisha Girl China pattern there. . . it was fun and a great way to make extra cash. It is a huge community and nice way to cyber-meet people from all over the world. I never had a problem selling or buying. . . I just offered a money back if there was an issue. I got to know my repeat buyers well, and took requests. You can get just about anything on there. . . sometimes at real bargains. . . lot's of vintage items. . . . nostalgic stuff. Heck, you can even buy PFAL. God help us all. . . it's "available". You should check it out.

Chilling! I never really quite "got" this account as to the sin. I have read different takes on it. . . seems there are several schools of thought. Is it a conscious act? Must be. . . right?

Another nice thing to add to fresh Mayo is fresh dill. Just a pinch is nice along with dry mustard. I sometimes mix that with horseradish and it makes a nice spread for sandwiches. With homemade yogurt I add fresh blueberries and freeze it for a treat. As it thaws it is really yummy on a hot day. . . . you could even make a yogurtsicle. When I buy spices now, I go to the whole foods market and get them from the big jars. Very inexpensive. . . fresher. . . and I get what I am going to need for a month. That way they don't sit in my cupboard and go stale. They have a huge selection. . .

WG, Not sure if you got a chance to read this thread from the start. It was a really good conversation for awhile between polite and informed posters. I actually got a lot out of it. . . although I didn't agree with some of the things said. . . it was impressive the way the posters respected each other without sarcasm and "hit and run" posting. It did deteriorate near the end. . . some name calling. . . etc. etc. . . . I hope it helps to answer some of the questions you have. MarkD. . . as I said. . . listen to your intincts. However, if you want to listen or read others your Pastor may be influenced by, there are some good teachers to read. If you are concerned about your Pastor, (and if he is really into Driscoll I would be) maybe, you should approach him. With your life experience, maybe you are the perfect person to send up a warning. A red flag. I really don't know about his theology, but his language and attitude is uncceptable. My hubby and I were discussing this yesterday. He is also familar with M Dris. . . and he pointed out some WORSE things that Drisc. . has said. Hubby brought up a good point. . . .Romans 14 speaks to behavior, and Driscoll. . . is obviously violating the idea of offending the weaker brother, judging, and causing him to stumble, by setting up himself and his Alpha male standard as what a Pastor or man should be. . . The Kingdom of God is not about what meat you eat or don't eat. . . .or anything like that, one conscience may allow this another may not. . . but, it is God working in people. If the source of unity is Driscoll's example. . . we don't have unity. . . we have every male being Alpha or looked down upon if not. We are to depend upon the work of the Spirit for all the help we need. . . . and renounce self-reliance. That is what pleases God and extends His kingdom in the church and manifests it to the world. Now God is able to work in us what is pleasing in His sight. . . differing people. . . differing strengths. God is the giver . . . not us. . . He supplies what we need to serve Him, not us all being Alpha males??? Good luck with your Pastor, I hope he is meek and hears you. It is EXCELLENT you have questioned this. . . that is why we are all different. . . your conscience and your experience can be really helpful here. Maybe this is how your cult experience helps. . . you can smell it a mile away!!

Well yeah, I do consider that. Not too too many from my POV. . . Hyper-Calvinism is another story, but, as a Christian I may have a differing definition of cult than you. Anything taken to the extreme can be cult like. Calvinism is in opposition to Arminianism, which I also find interesting. I said I was interested in Reformed Theology. . . not sold out to it. I am not a Calvinist per se, but do agree with some things. I am not sure where I stand on predestination and total depravity. . .but, I am interested in the sovereign nature of God and His attributes, so that is why I like Reformed Theology. I have some Calvinist leanings. . . I read the Puritans too. . . I am not a Puritan? At least last time I checked. :) (Calvinists with big buckles.)

WG, Mark D. get's himself in alot of trouble with his mouth. Other Pastors often "reprove" him for his language and approach, but he does have some good points. . . like when he rips into cults! LOL There was someone in the article that is pretty good to read. John Piper. I like his stuff on the attributes of God. . . but I just don't think I could ever get behind just "one" teacher or an one entire faith again. I do like Reformed Theology. . . so interesting. I pick some from here and some from there. . . . there are some wonderful teachers and preachers around. MarkD just isn't one I can take for more than a few minutes at a time. . . you are right. . . that mouth reminds me of LCM.