geisha779

Something has to motivate someone to want that kind of control. . . . a deep seated insecurity or there is something at stake. . . like money. . . . or a power grab. Seems so similar to TWI. . . but, a cult is a cult . . . . at some point people have got to want something better than these same behaviors and same people messing with their lives. . . . . . . I don't care HOW sincere they are. . . it is poisonous. Why keep going back to the same kind of abusive tactics. . . . because one thinks that it is the only place where "truth" is? Time to take a pass on that kind of destructive truth. . . . Where is the faith?

Maybe it is just another form of control. Similar to the way people in TWI were possessed. . . a way to keep people in line. Fear tactics. Wasn't it a select few with the ability to give these prophecies? Power concentrated at the top. . . . or a way to claw on up there? One could say whatever they want about those they don't like. . . get into the middle of someone's MARRIAGE. . . . . destroy people with reckless abandon. . . ruin reputations. . . all with the idea of devil spirit possession, I mean personal prophecy. My question is. . . why would anyone want to. . . what were they trying to hide or cover-up or hang on to with this bizarre stuff. Was money, sex, or the misguided notion of power at stake?

And. . . they are surely not anything remotely close to Christians IMO. I told you they claimed to be Christian Bolsh. . . I may have spoken too hastily. It was in response to your questioning the use of scripture in a thread about TWI. I used it to point out they actually do the opposite of what they claim to follow, but you have a valid point. . . do they claim to be Christian? I always called myself a Christian in TWI. Just not a carnal Christian like those sneaking in the backdoor, but not sitting in the living room. I didn't often hear the term used in a derogatory manner, but the "others" who claimed to be Christian. . . they were maligned. Looking back, I did hear a few rants about the term. . . I think it was more because it was associated with the others who are called Christian. . .the dreaded and evil trinitarians. The one's it was acceptable to mock with abandon. Whatever they call themselves. . . . . TWI does claim an odd form of sola scriptura as their way.

Hi Roy, I don't know the answer, but I think that carbon dioxide is when carbon and oxygen combine? I think you mean carbon. . . . if you want to do some searching on the internet. . . Also. . . carbon. . oxygen. . and water are needed to sustain life. . . so that might help. There are other elements needed as well. . . . and then you have what are called trace elements. There are 96 elements. . . I think. . . That is about all I can remember.

Waylaid, Your name does have a double-entendre. I have to wonder how many people come to this site for info on TWI after being witnessed to. . . . and decide not to go to a fellowship or take a class. . . due to the posts here. You might agree that is a good thing. . . no? Wish I had never heard of TWI myself. . . . of course I did. . . and issues do arise. . . I am glad there are people who 'get it' and offer some support. . . we have a very unique history. . . not THAT many of us lived to tell :) . . . it is an odd sort of camaraderie. But, still the same it is often helpful and can be fun. Stick around. . .

Trust and Obey, I really enjoyed your post. . . you make so many good points. God is love. . . and we just love that verse. . . I do. . . but, I think we humans have a tendency to magnify that attribute of God's, above others. I often do. . . . because THAT is the one I am most comfortable with. Scripture only magnifies one attribute of God's . . . in it being said three times in two places. . . . Holy, Holy, Holy. . . not love, love, love. I believe it is the one attribute mentioned most in scripture. We don't really have anything to compare God's holiness with. . . it is completely unique in that He has no darkness or sin. . . hard to wrap our heads around. Even when we are living holy it is only in a vague or relative manner. So, yes God is love. . . . that is one thing He is. . . but, it is difficult to define Him(and I could stop there) by that one attribute alone.

As long as we don't use the bible to ascribe good and evil. . . . Yes, by all means. . . Harry Potter books. . .a great illustration.

This is humor right? You did not take all that time to correct my one line post other than for humor?? I was just letting Bolsh know I knew they had used these alignments to analyze Harry Potter characters.

God's plan of redemption is for mankind. We are forgiven through Christ. . . We know and understand in PART. . . when we learn something new. . we can repent of our sins . . . . Angels know God perfectly. . . . when Satan and his angels rebelled they were going against what they already had complete understanding and knowledge of. . . the glory of God. A complete rejection with full knowledge. Complete evil. God is love. . . again. . .we cannot apply our understanding of love to God, and along with being love. . . . and righteous, God is also perfectly JUST. He is every bit as just as he is love. God's plan of redemption for mankind brings glory to God as it reveals His mercy. He is merciful to those He will have mercy on. If one doesn't understand is just nature, His mercy is not going to be fully evident. What is it we are saved from? GOD's wrath to come. Is it just He has wrath? If we can begin to understand His amazing nature and glory . . . what it means that God is holy and He is every bit as holy as He is love. . . we see His great mercy revealed. Being holy means being totally separated from evil. . . He has no darkness in Him. . .that is His goal with us. . . sanctification. . . to remove evil from us. . . and then ultimately our glorification. His being holy is not that He has a great track record on doing good. . . . but, that He is completely separated from evil. . . . so, it is almost unfathomable that He would make a way for us to be accepted and to share with Him. While we were yet sinners?? THAT is mercy and THAT is love. God's love for the angel's allowed them to fully see His glory and to worship in His presence continually. . . . Is there forgiveness for the rejection of such complete knowledge of God? How could there be? But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:48

Maybe. . .yes the concept. . . where one could be righteously angry over something. But TWI did not hate evil they embraced it. . . . their "Righteous" anger was misplaced. Whereas someone like you would probably be angry over an injustice or the victimization of someone. . . rightly angry. Big difference over what you are angry about. Evil can be tricky to define for someone in a group like TWI or even in certain evangelical circles. . . . my opinion of course. :) For all of us at one time or another I guess. But, God being perfectly Holy. . . not an issue.

Rottiegirl, No, sincere questions are not silly when you are seeking to know God. I don't know why I keep saying the same thing over and over. . . . I think I am saying it VERY poorly. . . . and yes ABSOLUTELY the word hate does take on a different connotation. . . . someone else may be far better able to look at the words with you. . . . but. . . there is a concept I am trying to convey to you here. Consider how fierce God's love can be. . . how big. . . do you think His hatred could be as burning? . . . because God is hating that which is evil. . . it is a righteous thing. . . or the right thing to do. . . . He does not abide evil He abhors it. . . God is Holy. . .part of being holy is to hate evil. . . . that is a good thing to hate. When Satan hates. . . he is hating that which is righteous and good. That makes his hate WRONG. . . and evil. . .not righteous. So, in that respect it is different. It is still hate, the idea of hate itself not being wrong. . . . but, what one hate's makes the difference between it being right or wrong. . . good or bad. So, no it is not the same KIND of hate. . . because one is righteous . . . and one is evil. As far as Satan being nice in the end. . . to save himself? Would that be sincere repentance against a Holy God? Is forgiveness possible? We need a Savior? No? We are not forgiven on our own merit. Cynic touched on reprobate men. . . . . . that is a whole other concept here. . . even we who are saved sometimes are brought so low. . . why is that? And. . . . Satan is not a man.

Harry Potter would be proud! Hey, whatever works for you. . . .???

I thought all the big stuff was happening in 2012? Mayan calendar and all that. . . . Will someone PLEASE call George Norry and Art Bell and tell them it has been changed to 2028. Roy, I hope your health only improves more and more.

Well, I guess in a way this question you pose should bring up many many questions for you. . . . really good questions because it is all wrapped up in the attributes and nature of God. There is no more greater topic IMHO. Nothing interests me or thrills me more. The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Proverbs 8:13 The word hate is used many times in the bible. Maybe someone else can point them all out and tell you what they mean and give you details and analyze it to death to come to a very simple conclusion. . . . . my point is really basic. . . you need to seek God and desire to understand His nature. These questions will be answered in knowing God. We read that God is love and sometimes stop. . . applying what WE understand about love to God. . . . but His love is greater and more perfect than we sometimes remember. . . . Because God is love does that mean He does not hate? Don't you yourself hate evil? Is it right for God who is righteous to hate evil? Think about it. . . He would have to, but that would not be wrong. . . it would be right. Satan? He is not a human being with whom God has a covenant. . .history is already written for him. He has no sacrifice to save Him.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Mstar's Zeppelin song reminded me of my all time favorite Zeppelin song. . . . Fool in the Rain. . . the video is odd, but it was the best audio I could find. . . such a great song.

And don't forget that it is GOD who is righteous. That is where the right comes from. . . . it is often paradoxical to what we think right should be. Satan hates all that is holy and good. . . . the bible says God hates evil. . . there is a difference. . . one is evil the other righteous or right.

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 ) Sounds like an action to me. Does it stand to reason that because God is love. . . . he would purely hate evil? Would that be wrong? Would that make God ANY less love because He hated evil? No, not at all. How could it? If God is all good . . . He would HAVE to hate evil. Consider what David says in Psalm 139 0 For they speak against You wickedly; Your enemies take Your name in vain. 21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties; 24 And see if there is any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting. After he tells God he hates God's enemies with perfect hatred. . . he then asks God to search his heart!! Was David wicked for telling God he hated with perfect hatred? No. We love OUR enemies. . . . but do we love that which stands opposed to God?

Know that Yahweh your God is God, the faithful God who keeps His gracious covenant loyalty for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commands. But He directly pays back and destroys those who hate Him. He will not hesitate to directly pay back the one who hates Him. Deuteronomy 7: 9,10 Well, if God is like that towards men who hate him, how bad is it going to be for one who cannot repent? Does it really stand to reason that because God is love, He does not hate things? The bible says He hates things and that is just as true as that He is love. Is it really wrong to hate evil? How does that make Him any LESS loving? It doesn't . . . God's love is not tolerance for anything and everything. . . and everyone including Satan. . . not even close. God is love and God is just, Holy, Righteous, and promises to avenge evil. . . no?

Aaaaah yes. . . they have arrived here too. On the plus side. . . summer has decided to join us. . . . 90 degrees and sunny today my friend. . . enjoy it! :) And BTW. . . I love it when you venture anywhere to post. . . Go Sox. . . is it time for te Dropkick Murphy's and Tessie yet?

Why is it on a discussion forum. . . .the exchange of thoughts and ideas is considered "strifes of words"? I thought it was the whole purpose. I am genuinely interested in Bolsh's perspective. . . . . . although I don't agree. . . I like to read it. And I agree Mstar. . . these are human values. The question then becomes. . . where do they come from? I thought that was what we were discussing in a civil manner. No? Edited to add an s to ideas and an h to where. :)

The beatitudes are antithetical to worldly wisdom. You seem to have answered your own question here. . . . and very well too. "I think the idea of loving satan can be very dangerous, to the point of being passive towards evil." Scripture does not directly address your question about Satan, but the answer is found in understanding the attributes and character of God. . . . as best as we are able. Because God is love does that mean he cannot hate evil? For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil cannot lodge with You. The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all evildoers. Psalm 5:4,5 You seem to understand the issues with the line of reasoning you are examining. . . . What might be helpful for you is to start reading some good apologetics or even invest in an apologetics bible. The Apologetics Study Bible is really a good tool. . . it is the Holman Christian Standard version. It addresses many of the issues that come up when post modern thinking is applied to biblical interpretation.

Wow, really? We made a conscious choice, to forfeit our own minds? I didn't know that. That is what happens in cults? Reading all that study on the psychology of cultic exploitative persuasion and manipulation. . . . . . and NOW I find out it was a choice to forfeit my mind and reason. . . .

Nihilistic much? You must love to read the book of Ecclesiastics. . . . if not. . . you should check it out. . . you just might relate to it.

Well, if there is ever a baying mob at their doorstep. . . they can offer up Rosalie as a consolation prize.

Because they claim to be CHRISTIAN??? And. . . been there. . . done that. . . more than once.