geisha779

Leaders needed for what? To run the cult? Not being facetious. . . . I just don't get it.

Okay, not to heap on more, but consider what happened if we did DARE express some individuality of thought or understanding. . . . about anything really. . . . music, art, books, film. Any idiot could recognize a deviation from TWI think. . . . the rebels stood out. . . . and anyone could say you were possessed of EVIL for having an individual thought. The scary thing is, I really do believe they heard something telling them this. . . . which actually made them all the more believable. These are tortured and wasted minds. I remember. . . . I lived it! Always being on guard. . . vigilant. . . has got to create some kind of anxiety disorder? Don't you think? Always watching and trying to outsmart the enemy. Even military get some R&R. . . . . . It is no wonder many cult survivors have PTSD symptoms. . . . scary and intense stuff.

The maker of the heavens and the earth. . . . was our own personal GPS in TWI. . . Lord ,do I take a right on Elm or a left? Which laundry detergent do I buy? Oh .. . and can you bless me with a good parking space for my rusted bucket of bolts that is unsafe to drive?

*i'm no professional therapist or anything but i wouldn't think these things are mentally healthy things to practice.* Okay, that is funny. . . . talk about an understatement. . . . how true!! :) Excellent!

RR, you as a scientist, must know that it is the little green/gray men from outer space we pick up in our fillings. . . . why do you think dentists have switched to ceramic. . . . too many people were catching on. . . .

I have sometimes wondered if that whole *revelation* thing coupled with SIT didn't set some of us up for some sort of mental illness later in life. . . . . listening for voices in our head, hearing them, doing what they say. . . . . or blanking out instead of engaging in what is going on around us. . . . not everyone. . .but, it may have contributed to problems some have. I remember reading something from JAL about knowing the difference between Jesus' voice and God's voice speaking to him. . . . that is two voices right there.

The end comes. . . your life flashes before your eyes. . . and a large portion of it is sectioned off into 15 minute increments. . . accounted for . . . to some *ministry* leader you secretly despised. All because you were so afraid of the *adversary* you forgot to live.

I am chuckling . . . not at you, :) but at a point you bring up that is so relevant . . . . the Holy Spirit. . .He is not a magic amulet . . . He is God. The Holy God you read about in scripture. Rumrunner has a great descriptive term for God. . . maybe not one I would think of. . . but apt. . . . the most powerful *expletive* in the universe. . . except, He is even outside the ever expanding universe as well. So, it is not really about bad things happening to US . . . . they do. . . and I believe in a sovereign God, the one scripture reveals. . . but, it is about His holiness. Things are seldom about US in the grand scheme of things. . . they are about God. If you have given your heart and soul over to God. . . . He has come to dwell within you. . . will He share a dwelling with evil? No. Possession indicates control. . . if you look at the gospel accounts or some really bad televangelists. Influence is a different matter isn't it?. . . . We can be influenced, sin, and grieve the Holy Spirit. Biblical justifications?. . . . I am afraid they might build a *logical* biblical picture for why a Christian cannot be possessed. An aside: Whether people used reason for explaining their faith. . . when. . . . doesn't change it is a reasonable faith!! It still paints a reasonable picture. Dial it all back to life's most basic questions. . . you get a reasonable answer for the *whys*. The God and plan revealed in scripture. This website is a collection of bible answers by some well respected Apologetics Ministers. . . . it usually gives the accepted *Mainstream* answer. . . . http://www.gotquesti...-possessed.html "The Bible does not explicitly state whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon. However, since a Christian is indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19), it would seem unlikely that the Holy Spirit would allow a demon to possess the same person He is indwelling. This is sometimes a controversial issue; however, we strongly hold to the belief that a Christian cannot be possessed by a demon. We believe there is a distinct difference between being possessed by a demon and being oppressed or influenced by a demon. Demon possession involves a demon having direct control over the thoughts and/or actions of a person (Luke 4:33-35; 8:27-33; Matthew 17:14-18). Demon oppression or influence involves a demon or demons attacking a person spiritually and/or encouraging him/her into sinful behavior (1 Peter 5:8-9; James 4:7). Notice that in all the New Testament passages dealing with spiritual warfare, we are never told to cast a demon out of a believer (Ephesians 6:10-18). Believers are told to resist the devil (1 Peter 5:8-9; James 4:7), not to cast him out. It is unthinkable that God would allow one of His children, whom He purchased with the blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-19) and made into a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), to be possessed and controlled by a demon. Yes, as believers, we wage war with Satan and his demons, but not from within ourselves. The apostle John declares, "You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world" (1 John 4:4). Who is the One in us? The Holy Spirit. Who is the one in the world? Satan and his demons. Therefore, the believer has overcome the world of demons, and the case for demon possession of a believer cannot be made scripturally."

I think it is exactly what you say. . . . ambiguous. If one holds a high view of God(like me). . . has a high Christology. . . than they do not believe Christians can become possessed. . . but, there are pentecostals and Charismatics. . . . who would try to cast out a demon from Jesus Himself. VP extrapolated our theology from the Word of Faith movement. . . . charismatic. Funny . . . . . or not. . . . the religious leaders of Jesus' day. . . . accused Him of having a devil. . . . or doing miracles by the power of the devil.

Ironically, that verse says it is God who give this. . . . and it is not inconsistent with the Old Testament teaching of God judicially hardening Pharaohs heart. Tom, :) VP is a perfect example of someone who departed from the faith. He was in the church and he intellectually assented to the gospel. He, at one time even preached it BUT. . . . he was never of it. Your body can be physically present, your lips can be moving, but your heart can be far from the Lord. You can even believe the gospel, quote it, memorize and teach it. . . . it is not about an assessment and agreement of the facts. . . . the facts or words do not save you. . . . it is faith or complete trust in Jesus as the only savior, yielding your life to His Lordship. Jesus is Lord. . . . and Jesus is savior. . . every knee will bow to His Lordship. . . . not every knee will be saved. Romans 10: 9&10 is only part of the gospel message to salvation. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us for if they had been of us they would have remained with us, but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. Depart from the faithful, deny the faith, and then try to deceive others. Look what Jesus said twice. . . John 10:28 & 29 And I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hand. The Christian is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. . . who is God. . . . for a true Christian to be possessed or indwelt by an evil spirit. . . . the spirit would have to subordinate God almighty. No, true Christians cannot be possessed. Now, if there is such a thing as a true believer in Christ. . . . it stands to reason there must be such a thing as a false believer. That is why scripture spends so much time warning and telling us about them. We were false believers in TWI. . . . seduced away . . . . some of us never knowing sound doctrine to begin with. . . others talked right out of it. Just to add:. . . . that belief we held in TWI of possession goes hand in hand with the incredibly low view of God we had. . . . we needed to fill our minds with knowledge of the "word" to protect ourselves. . . . when did we ever put our faith in the Lord to keep us?

No, I read the entire post. It is because you were not specific I asked you for clarification. . . . . I was curious enough to want to know. I could just read into it I guess. . . . I thought the thread was "Homosexuality a doctrinal discussion" ?? I did not realize I had to be one to speak about that doctrinal issue. Since I am interested in the topic and have a great deal of interaction with people who are either gay. . . . or practice homosexuality within the confines of incarceration. . . . "gay for the stay" as they say. . . . I was naturally curious.

What is not much better than a witch hunt? And what makes you think most of us don't have gay people in our lives? Friends whom we love. . . . and speak to almost daily. Amazingly enough, you can be Christian and love a homosexual at the same time. Dr WW, You are right. . . there are male and female. . . but, that verse in which there is neither male nor female. . . is speaking of all being one . . . . in the Lord. It is in relationship to Christ. Jesus, while on earth treated women with equality. . . . not of roles so much. . . we all have different roles at times. . . . but, of value. :)

I don't know, but, I think I'm sensing a pattern here. This was classic though. . . they accused me of telling people to stop sending money. . . . gee, all I said was "vote with your wallet". Yet, he doesn't make the correlation? Strange people. Oh wait a minute. . . it was a grand total of 90 people at the big meeting? ROFLMAO 90 people? 90 people turned out? This is about a handful of faithful . . . . isn't it? All this drama. . . . over a few followers? Man, that pool is really shrinking.

Jesus was actually revolutionary in the way He interacted with women in that culture. . . they were counted among His disciples in a time when women were not allowed to study the scrolls. . . . . . He crossed ethnic, cultural, and gender boundaries with the Samaritan woman at the well. He had one of the most intense theological discussions recorded. . . . with her. He appeared first to women after the resurrection in a time when women were not considered reliable witnesses. . . and in His dying moments in pain and agony. . . saw to His mother's continued care. I don't really think Paul is opposing the witness of Jesus' life with this admonition. Having been married to the same man. . . . longer than not. . . .I can attest to the dynamic which naturally occurs in most long term relationships. . . . that of one person emerging as more dominate in certain matters. It happens in same sex couples too. It happens in most partnerships. That is not to say. . . . dominate over the other person. . . . . Couples can work it out however they like . . . conveying or relinquishing authority in whatever way works within the confines of an equal partnership. What happens when two dominate personalities are in relationship to each other? It doesn't work if there is not give and take. Paul is just advising on a natural dynamic. . . . women. . . submit to your husbands authority. . . a husband and wife have to work out that authority within that equal partnership. . . the same natural dynamic pops up in same sex unions. One person will be submitting in some area or another. . . . we all do. There is neither male nor female. . . bond nor free . . . but all are one. . . . in the Lord. How people extrapolate from what is written doesn't render it any less true or relevant. . . . in many ways it illustrates many of scriptures points. You mentioned living by feelings. . . . yeah amen . . . we are human. . . . I don't think the bible is a book telling you how you should feel, but more to explain and help us with the myriad of feelings we do have naturally. It is not a book of rules, or moral conduct as much as . . . . it is a book pointing to a person. . . in whom all these things fit together. . . . that is where it all makes sense. . . . in relationship to Christ. Without Him. . . it is often used as a weapon to wound or divide. There is real freedom in Christ. . . deep, personal and liberating life. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. There is no freedom in a book of rules and laws. . . . it just highlights our inability and the futility of it all. Look at a book. . . you get the book. . . look to the one it points to. . . you get some answers. :)

Makes you wonder why. . . . I have a theory. . . . part of it is the politicalization of homosexuality by gay activists. . . . . which was responded in kind by the evangelical community. . . . who have a history of politicizing issues. Once it becomes political, those with a competing agenda, become an enemy to be vanquished. . . . not a field of harvest. The Christian right is a political movement. . . . not a Christian movement. . . . it pushes an agenda and takes no prisoners. The biblical response to any kind of sin is repentance and forgiveness. . . . and we are to love our enemies not brand them. . . . God's kingdom is not furthered by the ballot box.

It probably did take the abrupt personality change associated with high pressure groups like TWI to get me to change. :) Seriously. . . I wasn't about to go into rehab. . . . my closest family was a 1000 miles away. . . I was really young and liked to party hard. . . . and although I knew I needed help. . . and prayed. . . . I could not wrap my head and heart around the idea of church. So yeah, in an odd twisted way. . . it probably did save me from a drug or alcohol related early demise. Life is funny. It was a sideways move . . . . no doubt. . . . but, I did remain vertical. That is one of the things that kept me convinced it was truth. . . . long after I physically left. . . . the idea that I prayed and TWI came at me from a couple different angles. Never really considered that so did a group of Christians a few buildings over. . . . the sister of an ex-boyfriend. . . and the wife of a neighbor we partied with. . . . I have actually wondered about that for years. . . . the truth is. . . I would not have listened to anyone else. . . the guy who witnessed to me also got wasted with me first. . . . I didn't really want to change. . . . just slow down. . . . going out drinking after twig. . . meeting in bars. . . . grace as a license to sin. . . . the "no legalism" mantra. . . . all kind of appealed to me. Hooked me right in. . . before I knew it. . . I was in a cult. To Add: The girl I lived with. . . who was a school friend from home and got involved with TWI along with me. . . is still involved and high up the food chain. . . . why I got out and she didn't. . . . still makes me wonder.

Soul Searcher, It was not my argument. . . . it was from the website I linked to. . . I am not really qualified to judge the private consensual sex lives of others. . . nor would I want to . . . . doesn't really fall under my jurisdiction. :) It isn't really a sin against me. . . if it is true that it is a sin against a holy God. . . . people will have to reckon that out between them and their maker.

Well, it isn't really a sin against you or me is it? I could care less what consenting adults do behind closed doors. . . . . but, then again, I am not a holy God who cannot abide sin. What makes you fairly certain He doesn't care? Not agreeing or disagreeing. . . . just curious. The pat Christian answer. . . . bearing in mind Christians believe we are all fallen. http://www.gotquesti... "The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God "gives them over" to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual "offenders" will not inherit the kingdom of God. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person's choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality. However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a "greater" sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God's forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13)."

We can see a color coded view of our interior self. . . . our DNA is as beautiful as any stained glass window. That is where who we are. . . is stored. . . you are right. . . drop dead gorgeous.

Ghandi also said "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ." Fairly profound comment and sobering in its astuteness. Nice suggestions. . . . I truly mean that, but Number 4 might be a bit too broad and subjective for me. . . . not that I advocate violence, hatred or disdain. . . but, moral codes vary from culture to culture. Many Islamic cultures punish adultery. . . . . . I don't agree with the idea of harsh punishment for adultery . . . . but, I do interpret adultery as wrong according to scripture. What extreme someone reacts to it does not invalidate the scripture or interpretation. I will spare you the rest. . . you probably have had just about enough of me. . . . I have too BTW. :) I don't think everyone will believe. Do you? Jesus lays out some pretty striking conditions of the human heart. But, people who don't believe in God still take giant leaps of faith everyday. . . . sometimes just getting out of bed. Think about the Anthropic Principle. That is a rather tenuous veneer for faith the sun will rise another day. There is a mathematician out of Oxford named John Lennox . . . . he is a Christian, a brilliant guy, and he talks about the idea of reasonable faith and probabilities. . . you should google video him. Really fun to listen to. I am a Christian, but I do not think I became one until after TWI. I do believe in eternal life. . . . :)

I was being ironic. I really need to work on that. . . . it is my way of making a point without really coming out and saying it. :) I am only responding here because I saw you! You know, this whole topic makes me very uncomfortable because I think it spills over into hyperbole. I went back and read the thread and saw I had mentioned Matt Chandler. On Thanksgiving he collapsed and had a seizure. They found a tumor in his frontal lobe and after surgery the pathology was that it was cancerous. He is a young guy, 35, with a wife and 3 small children. He is the Pastor of a church in Texas. Highland Village Church. I have been watching the Facebook sites they have for updates and messages. The overwhelming response from all over the world of prayer and concern caught everyone by surprise. It is huge. He is a beloved Pastor. He has people from everywhere in various denominations praying for his healing. Not once have I read a word about unconfessed sin or God's unwillingness to heal him fully from any of these new calvinists. . . I do read prayers that God be glorified through this and a distinction between their hope in the Lord and prayer for healing. . . . but, people are praying for Matt to be healed. Not a soul is telling him God doesn't heal. I think he explains their understanding quite well on this video http://fm.thevillage... . . . . I love this Pastor. . . he has a wonderful heart for God.

Penworks, See, I agree that mindset is problematic((John Hagee), but, just because someone uses scripture to endorse a POV . . . . doesn't mean scripture or God endorses them does it? I don't have to look at Karen Armstrong or my own experience to understand extreme. Scripture itself reveals that there are people who will use it for political and personal gain. Nor do I need to look further to understand that there are those who use it with contention. Funny thing. . . . scripture is spot on concerning these people. . . . and if it is true, and it is pretty accurate about them. . . .then there is ultimate justice involved. An authority with the power to execute that justice. Interesting to ponder the concept of justice. Where does that come from? So, what are we going to do? Legislate theology we don't like? It would just be replaced with something else. Think about it. . . . religious people got prohibition passed. They saw something that went against their idea of morality. . . . right and wrong. . . . the demon rum. . . .and what happened when they got to decide what was acceptable? They had some valid concerns BTW. . . but, when they were successful, we got organized crime that we are still dealing with today. . . . it opened a flood gate. . . pick your poison. A group of early Puritans were successful in establishing a powerful political base, which for a time strictly legislated the moral code. . . . what happened? The religious persecution which resulted was greater than that from which they themselves had fled. By the second generation their kids were doing things much worse than what they sought to eradicate! Scripture tells us about the children of Israel who cried out for a king. . . . they ended up with rulers who were very corrupt and very oppressive. God warned them repeatedly what would happen. Many in the crowds who followed Jesus were very excited about the prospect of a new king. . . . they thought He would right all the moral wrongs as earthly ruler . . . a new political guy. . . . . . they were ready to join his party and create a new utopia. . . . well, once He started telling them of the personal cost involved in His way . . . . that 5,000 He fed dwindle to a few. Jesus had serious disdain for religiosity BTW. . . for the John Hagee crowd. . . . you and He are tracking together on this. I could go on about how He does do this. . . . changes hearts. . . rights the wrongs. . . and works within us. . . I could speak of powerful transformation of the individual. . . . but, you have said it is not for you. I think you are wrong. . . . I think He is exactly the answer you really would appreciate. . . . because. . . . People like John Hagee are part of the human condition . . . . and no matter how much we speak up . . . or how much we try to control and change things. . . .that condition is going to manifest itself in some form or another. We are not going to stop it and history is replete with examples of us trying. What if we manage to eradicate what we see as Christian religiosity? What we rightly consider hateful . . . do we get a better world or eventually just a different form of the same thing? I see it. . . up pops another group. . . yet another people with a better way. . . . to tell us how we should go . . . . didn't you actually write there must be a better way? Well, there are many voices, many paths, and many ways. Scripture even speaks of this. . . Jesus spoke of paths and ways. Part of being human. . .wanting to go our own way. We can even become extreme on our path in opposition to extreme! :) The book. . . which is the book that holds the explanation. . . nails this stuff. . . perfectly. . . the guy. . . whom the book is about. . . . got it. . . understood the human condition, and it is downright uncomfortable sometimes to hear Him expose it. But, He made claims about Himself. . . that He was the way. . . . the answer. . . . that He was the one to set it right. He claimed He had the authority to restore us to the right way. Hey, He was pretty spot on about what it means to be human. Justice, evil, forgiveness, restoration, love. . . . all the things that the cry out from the human condition converged in one place in time. . . . on the cross. The explanation about the solution is actually pretty staggering. Scripture explains what happened on that cross. You either accept it as true or you don't. You can give your life over to Him, let Him transform you from the inside out. . . . have hope in the completion of restoration. . . or you can go another path. What matters is the reality of authority. Is there salvation elsewhere? It is pretty apparent we can't save ourselves. And I have to say that it breaks my heart into tiny pieces when people twist scripture to their own ends. When they stray from the simplicity and beauty of the gospel. It never surprises me. . . people do this with many, many things. But, the idea that something can be true for you and not for me. . . . frankly. . . . makes my head nearly explode. Take the blind men and the elephant. . .at the end of the day. . . it is still an elephant who went home. It is either true or not. . . . it either corresponds to the reality or it doesn't. It is the truth of why we are here . . . . coded with a billion little bits of knowledge. . . . . designed by an intelligent personal Creator. . . . restored for a purpose. . . or not. But, once you start asking the existential questions. . . it is more than a reasonable explanation. . . it is a life altering one that gives peace and really. . . . incredible joy. I don't care if the explanation came wandering in, written in crayon, on the back of a goat. . . we still deal with the explanation. When John Hagee, VP, me, you, or anyone talk at the explanation instead of letting it speak to us. . . all we really get back is the lonely sound of our own voice.

I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I actually agree with a great deal of what Charlene says. . . so I walk a fine line. If you notice, it is page 8 and I just spoke up. . . . and it wasn't really in response to her posts. . . . two things caught my attention. . . . I found them so ironic I posted. One, was the idea that someone had spent many years in a cult and offshoot unable to reason out their faith, so therefore it isn't really possible, and somehow that contributes to strife. . . . and two, evidence and reason concerning issues of faith were the product of a lazy and backward mind. That is why I posted Dr. Collin's lecture. . . . while we were in a cult. . . that lazy mind was co-mapping human DNA. I posted Dr. Witherington because I recognized much of the history and analysis here and felt it woefully under represented. Having said that. . . . there is something I really do take issue with. . . .there seems to be a blurring of terms or lines concerning TWI and the Christian faith. As if somehow TWI and VP's bible worship and conditioning are on equal footing with Christianity or those who believe in the inerrancy of scripture. That somehow the term fundamentalist encompasses them all. Who exactly are these dangerous people? Those with this dangerous mindset? Can we have some clarification? I may agree, but then again. . . . I may qualify. What am I allowed to believe and speak of before I am termed a fundamentalist? No joke. If I believe that something is right and is true. . . . I am probably not going to believe another explanation. I may even believe someone is misguided in their perception, and I may not agree there is a better way. Does that really make me dangerous? Because if it does. . . . the person declaring me so is every bit as wedded to a fundamental and equally as dangerous. I was hanging out tonight in a room full of people we lock up because they are dangerous. . . . as a bible believing Christian. . . . I managed to walk out the front door.

Whoa. . . wait a second. I think you are still making that disconnect here. . . . you seem really hung up on the book. Where does that all or nothing bible craze come from? That perspective? We left the cult, you and I. . . . . .we don't need that jumping off point. If I can't prove to you it is perfect, then it can't be true? Do you know where most of these shocking revelations of additions and variants can be found? In the footnotes of any good study bible. They are not secrets. The book is what holds the explanation. We have to deal with the actual explanation as well as the book. . . as you point out, the book wasn't always around. . . . the explanation has been around awhile. Wouldn't it follow that if the explanation were true. . . . it would be perfect? By definition if something is true. . . it corresponds to a reality and is right. No? Makes sense to me. . . . but, the bible is not the Qu'ran. Which claims to be the exact representation of God. . . . and should not be translated but read in Arabic. The Christian scriptures tell about a man who claimed to declare God in His person. He also proclaimed the authority of scripture by, "It is written". Written by men. . . . inspired by God. One word as good as another, written by men in their own style, from their perspective, giving an explanation. Christians believe in the man and the explanation which comes to us NOW. . . . by way of the book. We believe the explanation, which answers the questions. . . . we believe what is written IN the book. TWI did us a great disservice. We worshiped that book as God. But, not everyone who believes in the inerrancy of scripture(the explanation) is worshiping the book. This is one of the reasons why I so hate TWI. . . . we were so conditioned to the extreme it is nearly impossible to get away from it. The aberrant fringe extreme. It still guides what we are drawn to and how we understand things. . . . Funny thing here. . . you really can't get away from declaring a truth. . . you tell someone they are wrong. . . you must have some authority on what is right. You tell someone they can't know what is true. . . you are declaring that to be true. Same shoe. . . . different foot.

I have the Zondervan NIV. . . . well, my son took it. . . I use the Apologetics bible, the Holman CSB- translation. The ESV study bible is fairly new and it was for the articles and available scholarship that I suggested it. It is a good jumping off point. Funny, I have been inspired lately to read some Shakespeare. . . . :) If you want to buy that bible you can get it through Desiring God. . . for under 30 dollars, minus shipping. I really hope you get a chance to check it out! http://www.desiringgod.org/Store/Bibles/ByTopic/All/805_ESV_Study_Bible/