geisha779

*******My opinion******* There is a difference between wanting God for who He is......and wanting knowledge. There is a difference between worshiping and delighting in God for being God....and delighting in words. Truth is a who....not a what....and truth has a name, and a voice. If that truth is missing....what is really left? VP used to say "It's the word, the word, and nothing but the word"....well then, that is what you get.....words......and endless disputes over words. The word became flesh... I hope they all find something better. :)

I am loving Darnell McDonald. How did the stRangers steal 9 bases and still lose? Crazy.

I think all ex-way....upon exit....should be given the bumper sticker...."S%t Happens" and just repeat it once a day until it sinks in.

Or luck?

Roy, you have the uncanny ability to show more godly love and compassion in your posts......than all we bible thumpers combined. It just takes open eyes to see it. Love, Geisha

He is indeed. He ran my first class. A 15 year veteran of the TWI trenches. He likes to say "I took the slow bus to bible class." You, especially, would like him Cynic, you have a great deal in common. He too loves the lord. :) And....he is the nicest person I have ever met. Oh and thank you very much for the review!

Waysider, In the video I posted, Driscoll is answering Pastor to Pastor specific questions regarding his methods....although there was a question or two about his approach....Reductio ad absurdum...reducing the Jesus of the cults down the absurd....to draw distinction......the theology is pretty much understood by all parties. He wasn't really teaching how he comes to this....but answering why he uses It. As for answering about the "sissy" men in the church comments :) .....same thing.....they all know how he comes to that....his approach to these scriptures. It was basically a defense of his methods....the "whys" to answer a more conservative Pastor who has been questioning him for some time.

Classic...still laughing!

My husband is reading Biblical Theology Old and New Testaments by Vos.....right now :)... I am reading Henry A Virkler's Hermeneutics....are you familiar? It has been very helpful in understanding some of the theology that I read here at GSC. Although, much still eludes me!

Steve, I am not a 19th century dispensationalist and we are just having a discussion about Ezekiel.... :) I do believe that God is sovereign and orchestrates things according to His purpose, but if I were to begin to try and explain how....we would have that discussion until one of us dies. It is one of the nuances in scripture that is nearly impossible to put into words. I bet Cynic knows exactly what I am saying. It is the reason we come up with terms like "The Providence of God." So, I am probably not as leery as you are of movements and times and changes in history. I don't think God is idle. However, I don't believe God is a Puppet Master ....and that is as far as I can take that explanation. So, again.....I don't believe that the verses in Ezekiel are speaking specifically to the resurrection of the dead, but to the resurrection of the life of Israel as a community. It is hinting at the resurrection of those faithful remnant, if you like. An analogy.....and beginning to build up to the resurrection of Jesus.....but, when you say.....here is the promise of resurrection.....no. Because.....it is just a glimpse into the idea of resurrection.....where else do we see these glimpses? Gen, Job, Daniel, Psalms..... But, every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. . . .is what I was refering to in the NT.....those that belong to Him. Then, if you want to talk about Abraham....and those who looked for His coming in faith to see who are Christ's....we have to look at Hebrews. Yada yada :) I'll spare you!! LOL Hope that helps.

Um, God called Israel as a people, a nation, and gave them a land??? Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance I have no earthly idea why you are giving me a history lesson? Not that I don't love history mind you :) I spent 6 long years earning two history degrees....one a MA in 19th Century history....But, I still don't know what you meant by the term promise of resurrection, and any good study bible will do to understand Ezekiel 37 and the promise to resurrect Israel as a nation(pardon the term I guess??) Although, you find it in your bible and despite the fact that the idea of nation has changed.....it is still an appropriate use of the word! If you don't understand the concept of resurrecting a scattered people back into a nation....to be one people after having roamed the earth, booted and persecuted....then I guess you don't follow what I am saying. Jacob ... had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you." Leviticus 26:33-38 "And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste. Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it. And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth. And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up." Deuteronomy 28:64-67 "And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: I am with you and will save you,' declares the Lord. `Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.' "... the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee" (Deuteronomy 30:3). "... Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel" (Ezekiel 17:11). How can you discount the whole idea of Ezekiel 36, 37 being a prophecy of resurrecting Israel as a nation, because the term has changed from then to now? It would still be a particular chosen people called back into a land for community...resurrecting that community. Which btw is why I used the word community. Israel is populated with people, very much alive, and in a community that is still being resurrected...no? It isn't over yet.... That is how you can read other meaning into those verses, by discounting the whole concept. Not to put too fine a point on it, but.....Moses didn't even enter the promised land....MOSES! Only two people from the Exodus entered.(I don't have my bible here) Anything anyone did receive was by faith, but Israel was basically dealt with in the OT as a, pardon the term, nation. It is okay Steve, I can see we are speaking at cross purposes. :)

Nice....wish I said it. :)

That too! Ever watch Lost? Sawyer is my nickname Hero. :) and hot. Definitely <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

I call women chica, chick, babe, cutie, sweetie, sometimes I even will use the term *hottie* in description. I respect women.....I am one.....and straight too! LOL It is just my personality....heck, I even call Pastor's wives "babe"....and they "babe" me right back. I hope you don't judge my whole church because I can have a big personality at times. Mark Driscoll is catching a great deal of deserved heat for his immature and ugly attitude....especially from Phil Jonson. ....maybe it will help.....let's hope so.....maybe not. I agree with SOME of the basis of what he is saying here, especially coming from TWI....but, the way he presents it in his sermons IS offensive. The way he speaks of men and women and role IS offensive! Remember Jesus loved Lazarus? Behold He loved the man......now Jesus loved Mary and Martha....Peter do you love, love, love, me.....John rested is head...or reclined with Jesus on His bossom. There is definitely a nuance of intimacy Driscoll is missing and he is passing on some bad Mojo to people. Dricoll's response to Johnson. For anyone interested in how he defends himself. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Steve, WHO said anything about a 19th century understanding of resurrection??? Where did that come from? I simply asked you what YOU meant when you wrote the following: "This is the promise of resurrection set forth in Ezekiel 37" What do YOU mean by this? You used the word? Are you speaking specifically to the restoration.....or resurrection of Israel as a nation.....as Ezekiel is....or are you speaking of individuals raised for judgment? Or both? Is Ezekiel speaking to one and hinting at the other? SIMPLE question. You also wrote the following, which is ambiguous at best, unless we draw a distinction between who and what is being resurrected. Don't you think? Here in verse 14 we have God saying that He is going to put His spirit IN people (yes, Wierwille, spin in your grave, IN people, in the "Old Testament") as part of the promise of resurrection. To distinguish this use of "spirit", I'm going to call it the "Spirit of resurrection life". It is receiving this Spirit that imparts life to the dead souls of Israel. And I decided to capitalize the "S" in "Spirit. After all, it's only God's own. What people? All of the people of Israel? When VP spoke of spirit upon people in the OT he actually spoke to individuals.....and good Lord, don't make me say the man was right!! :) What "life" specifically is Ezekiel referencing in chapter 37 that God will resurrect? Because, if he is speaking to Israel's "life" as a community it is a elemental component to the resurrection of the dead. Part of the build up to the resurrection of Jesus. However, it could be he is speaking to a community being resurrected.....and hinting at the future resurrection of individuals. I am trying to figure out what you are saying. Since you wrote it, I assume you understand what it is you are trying to convey. What "promise" of resurrection? It is definitely a resurrection analogy, but you have extrapolated specifics from it. Further, when you say specifically... The gathering together as part of the New Testament is promised in Ezekiel 11:17-20, "17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. "18 And they shall come hither, and they shall take away all of the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. "19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: "20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they will be my people, and I will be their God." I am actually very confused. What "gathering together" in the New Testament are you talking about? The promises in Ezekiel 11 are speaking to God bringing the people of Israel back into the land of Israel from the places where they have been scattered. No? Which is why I tried to illustrate this with what we can look at today in Israel's immigration policy or "Right of return". The reunion of the diaspora. The dispersed people of Israel. Isn't THAT what Ezekiel 11 is speaking to? I am simply trying to understand how you are seeing these verses. We can't read something into them that isn't there?

Steve, Thanks, but I was curious specifically how *you* were using resurrection, it would help me greatly to understand how you are interpreting these verse in Ezekiel 37. Also, help me in where you are going next with this as your platform, or jumping off point....it be might clear or foggy for explaining how you understand salvation....depending. I am trying to appreciate what it is you are learning.....but, you did say to hold your feet to the fire. When God deals with Israel it is almost always as a nation....as one people instead of as individuals. Remember, God chose them as a nation of people? These verses do, I believe, give a build up to Jesus' resurrection, but, I also believe they are speaking specifically to Israel's restoration as a nation. When I used the word New Testament, I used it as the division between the Old and New in the bible....not as a covenant. There may have been some confusion there. However, I do understand what you mean by an old and new covenant. :) I am curious also, how you are using the term "gathering together" concerning chapter 11? Is that in reference to what we might call "The Right of Return" where people are returning, right now, to the nation of Israel.....which btw...became a nation in a day....and is blooming like a garden in the desert? Israel is one of the worlds leading suppliers of fruit!! Whenever I go to stay in GB....most of the fruit there is imported from Israel. Or do you reference some kind of "rapture" some believe is articulated in the NT. I have serious questions about the "rapture" and not sure what I believe. Your terms are confusing to me....it is not you, but me....your time line as well....Ezekiel jumps around from present to future.....it is helpful to follow closely. I know your focus is spirit....and God breathing life into them.....but knowing who....helps clarify how. It also gives God the glory in understanding the incredible faithfulness on God's part!! Ezekiel speaks to the blessings that follows necessary judgment...just look at our own individual walks to understand that....it also emphasizes God's sovereignty to bring judgment and restoration and a clear warning to Israel of judgment. It also stresses the need for Israel's national accountability before God. Agree? So, help me understand how these verses speak to salvation, or life giving spirit? I am listening. To Add: Something you might find really interesting Steve, is that in February 2010 Israel's Prime Minister...Benjamin Netanyahu, while speaking at a Nazi death camp in Poland, delivered a speech warning the world of new genocidal threats against the Jewish people and also declared that the prophecies of Ezekiel 37 have been fulfilled. Fascinating.

Okay Steve, I am trying to figure out exactly what you mean when you say resurrection? Are you looking at these verses in light of Israel's resurrection of life as a community? Or as a build-up to the resurrection of Jesus? Or both? Are you drawing a distinction between national resurrection and the individual resurrection promised in the NT? I know you made reference to chapter 36 with God's promise to restore Israel, but have we jumped to individuals? Just trying to follow along and you are losing me.

Oops I forgot Gen-2. I don't know anything more about scripture than you do. We all have bibles and we can read...I simply believe that how we view God....determines how we understand scripture. Makes sense...right? When Jesus asked the expert in the law..."How do you read it?" The man knew the answer, but also missed the heart behind it. It is God who enlightens. :) We can have all kinds of knowledge and still not come to a knowledge of Jesus Christ. We were experts at it in TWI IMO. Working this stuff out is a process...I am still working it out too.

Amen...it is like being right back in TWI

Katie, I was answering the posts following yours....I left you with a smile.....and I wasn't mocking anyone....it was a deadly serious question. Satan is not in subjection to God? Christ is not the light of the world? Sometimes when I read here....I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole. BTW, in all sincerity, how does being subject to God differ from being in subjection to God? The end has been written for Satan.....he has been judged, yet, his end has not come. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. There is no repentance and forgiveness for Satan. He knew God completely...and rejected Him. People are already condemned....what happens to a non-repentant unsaved person, according to scripture? Why do we need salvation? We are already judged.....all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God......but, we can be saved from that judgment. Saved from what? Saved from whom? Who are we saved from? Tell me what we are saved from? The wrath of God? Satan does steal, kill, and destroy..... yet, God can use the evil meant....for good....for His purpose and His glory. Look at the cross. Just like when we are tried......God doesn't tempt us with evil....yet, trials build our faith. We are to rejoice in them. How? How does that work? Why did Job have to suffer and btw Job never knew why.....he was never told....he had a choice to go the way of his wife....curse God and die.....miserable comforters.........or his final deliverance...I have heard of thee with the hearing of mine ear, but now mine eyes see thee....I repent in sack cloth and ashes....who am I to question God. Did Job do anything to deserve his suffering? God said he was a good man. Did God allow Job to suffer? Yep. What blessing came from that? He saw GOD!! Why was Peter sifted? Why did Jesus have to suffer? Why do we partake in His suffering? Why do some people give their very lives for Christ so others can believe? What is the greater good that comes from that? They are dead....but, is that the end? Death is the enemy, it isn't even "natural".. . .but, the good news is........Jesus overcame death. That is the gospel, the light! Death is painful, horrible, and it hurts us to lose those we love. Grief is real. I don't have to tell you that..... but, is that the end of the story? IF it is....God is not sovereign over death. I lost a 4 year old child to disease Katie, I know grief. We suffer here....but, set before us is a greater hope. Jesus overcame these things already......no? What happened on that cross? We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Why do we groan? We are subject to futility....why? And even better HOW? All things came together in Jesus Christ..... 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: As uncomfortable as it is to our ego's there is no way to God, except through Jesus Christ.....the cross....our real struggle is not doctrinal....or even intellectual...it is with the idea of dependence. . ..something that challenges us to surrender our autonomy is unacceptable. But, God, can use all things to bring us to the place we DO surrender. Freedom in surrender, mourning to be happy, hungering to be filled..... Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Every single day unto the last. Formed for me. By God. . ...and if in this life only we have hope in Christ.....we are of ALL men most miserable. I didn't say God kills.....I said Satan is in subjection to GOd....the final chapter has not come....God is patient....but, the longsuffering of God works out for our salvation. What happens when a tower falls, or an earthquake hits, or a tornado rips through town......who do people cry out to? Did God cause the tornado? No....but, it stirs within us the need for God....when things are going great.....God is the last thing people think about......He can USE bad for good. God has a greater purpose in suffering.....but then again, we have such a greater hope. 5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 7Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? We have to look at things through God's lens in Christ.....that is where we see God's sovereignity.....God has it under control....we put our faith in Him through Jesus Christ. Here is the battle, we didn't see Jesus Christ.....we do see suffering.....but, it isn't about our best life now...... The man born blind.......is a perfect illustration....he was born blind for God's glory......that whole chapter goes through man's reasoning on suffering. Everyone has an opinion....as to why...but the really amazing part of that account is....in the end....they just denied it ever happened!! What they saw with their eyes was not real. God is not held captive to Satan, He uses all things for good, so we can see.....His higher ways, His mercy, His GRACE.....His glory.....because THAT is the better thing...where the joy comes....where the peace comes. . .the delight....the worship. In God as He is. Do you know what I am saying? It is a higher calling. We have a high calling. I think we may fight these answers because they don't elevate man's wisdom..... they elevate God. God is not sitting idle while the world is spinning out of control. He has a plan....HE has a purpose.....and He delivers. :)

Well, I assume as a Christian....you have caught a glimpse of what I mean....and might actually agree with me that is what ultimate salvation is.....is there anything better than that holy presence? We might even share a little smile or some joy in that? Makes some sense doesn't it? What we take away from scripture.....how we relate to it? Where our heart is....with God? Isn't that really the point? To bring us closer to God? Each other? To rejoice in hope? It is the "Good News" of the gospel. I simply thought aiming a bit higher than not getting tossed into a burning lake(do you really believe that imagery is real?)was a sound idea, because it IS better than that...ultimately. :)

Or....one could look at ultimate salvation as getting to spend an eternity with God in the presence of His glory.....it is how I look at it anyway.....

I think the point I was trying to make was Satan had to get permission..... :)

The light of the world too? Is this a trick? Are you playing with me? ......in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 6For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. Who else lights our way? Worship and rejoice with me. :) <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxcJaOooPI&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxcJaOooPI&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxcJaOooPI&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Satan got (edited :)) God's permission with Job...to sift Peter.....btw, is this a contest to see how low we can hold God in esteem? How high we can elevate our understanding? Who or what are we putting our faith in? God, or what we think we see as happening in the world? God's purposes are not thwarted by Satan. Have never been thwarted by Satan, our opinions, or our limited knowledge of Him. I wouldn't assume that someone who puts their faith in God..believes Satan to be more powerful? That would be a serious contradiction. That God would somehow be in subjection to Satan's authority? Daniel 4:17 " 'The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of men.' Gen 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. Just because someone means something for bad...doesn't mean God can't use it for good....for HIS glory. THINK!! Just consider what that means? Please. Let's glorify God together here and recognize something about Him.....God is all good...all holy....perfect.....no darkness.....righteous(meaning right)and love, and God's glory is not diminished by evil. God's glory and being are not in subjection to evil.......but, evil, Satan, is in subjection to that perfection and glory...... Satan is already judged? Who judged him? Satan is A CREATED BEING. Submit yourselves to God....resist the devil and he will flee. I wouldn't even think you would have to "study" this....knowing who God is....is enough.