geisha779

Same here Doc! In fact, you said something in your blog I found so provocative I just have to sit down and formulate a coherent question and ask you about it. It has had me musing since I read it. See you on FB. :) ------------- Remember our 'admirer', geisha? That was a true bonding moment! :) I was thinking about that when I read this thread. Seriously, you just can't make that kind of crazy up...... but in his defense.......he has really great taste in posters .......... us!

Mike, ClayJay, and then me bringing up the rear? I think I am going to have to ponder that one for a bit. :) I figured it was you moderating a few times and one in particular ...you were very gallant coming to my rescue when a now banned poster didn't like my liberal leaning and called me a, not so nice, name. Thanks for that!! I think I will miss our conversations here the most.....I learned a great deal. So, thanks for that too...... Reading about a possible new site....I did wonder how someone was going to recreate the even handedness of Pawtucket and the diplomacy of the moderators? A unique combination of class and temperament that has made this place so comfortable. I wish them luck. BTW....I still have a bottle of Berkshire Brew with your name on it....anytime.

I am sure I will miss reading here.......I pretty much finished posting awhile ago.....the last little go around I had here did it for me. Keeping TWI that fresh in my life isn't all that important to me. What I am doing in the present is what matters most. I can see people newly out needing a place to vent, explore, connect, and heal, but I have been out a long time. The die hard faithful in TWI have access to all the info they need to walk away. It is all out there. The lies, the abuse, the cheating, the greed, and the collective pain it all caused. If they decide to stay with such a group.....maybe they deserve what they get....maybe that is who they want to be?I don't know.....and care less and less as time passes. It is the people here that matter to me....I have made some sweet connections and I can keep those. . . . . with good people. Thanks for the opportunity to connect. I am happy for Pawtucket. Most of you know what an amazing person he is......and I have been kinda fascinated by him if truth be told. Such sweeping life changes and real positive influence on the lives of others. I wish him ALL the best. I can't wait to see where his journey takes him. I hope I get to take a peek.

I hear you, but are you so sure God is done with you yet? For me personally, once I stopped chasing "truth" and started seeking Him instead....my journey did a turn around. At least I believe so. It is easier to put your faith in a faithful person than someone's butchering of a book.....IMO.

Steve, I am really happy to hear you found Ben Witherington. . . . he is great to read...his background is not quite as fundamentalist as some and he is somewhat fluid in his understanding. ...meaning he is willing to change his mind. He had a blog which I don't think has been updated recently...however, there is much there to look over and enjoy. http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/

Groucho, I wrote on your FB page, but wanted to tell you here how sorry I am for your loss....RR must have patched you into one of our conversations once because I remember listening to you two banter.....besides telling some really hilarious and ribald stories(peanut butter)....you two spoke in this comfortable code that only comes from years of true friendship. It was during a bad spell and he was pretty ill. He mentioned certain things he had asked of you....but in code....and for some reason your response impacted me because I remember it. You simply said you knew your responsibility. That was all he needed to hear. He knew he could depend on you. I remember thinking yours went beyond friendship and into brotherhood. As you know....he didn't call many friend...it was a word that meant something to him....you were his best friend and I know how much he loved you. I am glad I got a peek into that kind of love. Thanks. I remembered him all day today...all the things we talked about. I wore black anyway...even if he didn't want people to mourn. I felt like wearing black....being sad and missing RR. Funny, he wrote me not long ago about a book...I gave him lip for not calling lately. I guess I didn't want to believe he would go so soon. I am so sorry for you and Dooj, for his kids and all who loved him. The world seemed a bit less today...the sun a bit more dim...it just did.

I just wanted to say a few things about RR. He probably saved more lives and helped more people than I will even meet in my lifetime. He traveled the globe and made a difference with his life. A little while back, he was very sick...and we thought he might be gone within a matter of days. He called me to say goodbye. Instead of concern for himself....he was worried about Dooj and her grief....he had concern for the problem I was having with my kid. He was determined to help me with a serious issue while he was so ill. Not one thought for himself at that time. He wanted so much to fix things for people....to make it better....to make it right. I will never forget that about him. He cared deeply for people and ministered to them. I used to tell him that and he would laugh at me. But, it is true. He even dusted off his bible one day and read to me from it. I was moved. He was far more spiritual than he would let on....but, he didn't have to....his life revealed his heart. We used to talk for hours about all kind of things...inevitably we ended up talking about God. He would tell me to go to my backyard and look up...to take it all in...and I often did just that. Funny, it was always just what I needed...that quiet time looking up. He was an amazing father...adored his kids....he adored dooj and her daughters...and he was a generous man. He sent me a gift once....and it is one that makes me cry right now. It was a book about grief and loss. I was going to visit him in the fall. We were going to sit at the table and talk. Someday....I will sit at a table with him....I am just so sad I missed it here. He loved the speech from Henry V...he played it for me over the phone. He read me the greatest quotes and told me some great things to read. He was smart....scary smart.....but always willing to answer a simple question. He loved Groucho...so much...that was his friend. You don't see friendship like that too often or the kind of abiding love he had for doojable and her daughters....Rumrunner was an incredible human being. I just wanted to say that about my friend.

Oh dooj... He was such a caring person....I loved our 4 hour into the wee hours conversations and lately was waiting for his call. I am crying like a baby and I don't know what to say. I am so sad and so very sorry for you all. If people only knew what a good soul he really was. I will miss him.

Hello Dr. Soul Searcher, I must say, I am not above being juvenile sometimes :).... I have run around the political forums before....undoing Sunesis negatives....and I don't even agree with her politics! I usually undo Love Matters or Rocky's negatives as well. I usually agree with them both politically. If I think a remark is particularly nasty.....or there is a one word answer with a gratuitous green mark...I may undo it. . . .but I have not given very many negatives that stand alone. I have accidentally marked my own post down before. . . . seriously....a couple weeks ago. This morning I undid another on Mstar's music post???? I used to un-negative Shellon's when someone ALWAYS marked hers down. She is a doll and full of some sound wisdom. So, I do use it.....but, I like the idea of stating a reason. Sounds good. I am game. Okay...Dr. WW had six green I gave him one this morning....now he is down to 4?

I would not worry either. I have not posted here for two weeks, barely looked at the board..... and someone voted 20 or so of mine down just the other day. Which means they had to go back further than two weeks to find them. I just look at the last people who look at my profile. I would give you a plus mark, but I used up all of mine fixing all of Mstar's negatives in the MUSIC thread, because someone voted a bunch of his down. In the MUSIC thread??? Subjective taste....music???? Sunesis is right...who cares....there is an ebb and flow here. When pluses are given for one word answers....snide remarks....or naming people.....you know it is not for the merit of the post anyway. When I can.....I will plus you.....very much!

Oh, it wasn't a sincere question? Sounded like one to me. Silly me....I must have answered sarcasm. Please continue littering up the place yourself. The last and only time I started a thread was months ago. Carry on.Church/ Christians....crazy thought on my part.

I was talking to someone about this today here.....the idea of an overseer. It may somewhat sound like TWI I guess.....but, when someone does it right....it is nothing of the kind. When someone Pastors another, with accountability to the Lord, with genuine love in their hearts, and with right understanding of boundaries and position. It is nothing like TWI. It is really a nice thing to have a Pastor to turn to when you need one. One that really cares about you, but appropriately. The music? We can't all pick it. My friends love this weird country gospel junk....no way. Others like hymns....some like Contemporary. Usually, the people who play the music, pick what they play, and then we sing a few hymns. We usually get to them all and if one is really burning on your heart....you mention it and we sing it. Since my kid is in the praise band....I have a say. No one complains....we are thankful for the talent we have and we enjoy it. We sing and praise with them They are a praise band. We don't really go witnessing. We are a witness to our community by how we reach out, offer help, and participate. Fund raising is usually planned by those raising funds for something. My kid is involved in a car wash every week, but they plan it themselves.....usually for missions trips. They put on dinners themselves and we all go and eat and have fun. Sometimes they have a breakfast....but, it is the people who need the money, who plan and raise it. My kid brought a well known Christian author to town....all the churches got together and chipped in....we all loved it. They have a local Christian radio station run from a church basement.....if you have an idea for a show....you write up a proposal and will probably be on air the next week. Sunday Service is pretty decently and in order. On Sundays one of the trained Pastors or elders share the message. Not everyone gets up to teach, but then again, not everyone is a teacher. On Wednesdays.....anyone who wants to share can share....we all wait until everyone who likes....has a chance to speak. We have a diverse congregation, but we do have a statement of beliefs. You don't have to believe them to go to our church, but all in all....that is why people go to that and other churches....that is what they believe. Trust and Obey, my Pastor sees me coming a mile away and smiles....because he knows...I am going to ask some tough questions. He loves it. On occasion....I have been right. He is a humble and meek man. Not anything like the people we ran into in TWI. I have met a few icky pastors, but not many. When I meet one who is remotely like a typical TWIer...I run to the exit. Church is a nice place that we all choose to go....because as Christians we desire and need each other....we don't have to do it alone.

I didn't say they were just buildings....churches often meet in church buildings. Built and set aside for that purpose, just like the temple. Where else do you all meet? Can someone tell me where these other churches are that meet together? Bodies of believers choosing to come together and commit to one another in love of Him? The places people are talking about that don't restrict the gathering of saints for prayer, worship, and accountability....with an overseer as mentioned in Timothy....elders.....where are you all going to gather together and encourage and provoke one another? Where do you all assemble. You can't assemble together with all Christians everywhere....and you must want to gather together and be with each other often. Christians love one another.....esteem each other? No? Desire fellowship around the Lord? What is the address, I will pop in... :)

VP better honest to goodness be feeling those flames right about now. I mean it. When we are so far removed from a church.....that we have to go to the DICTIONARY to find out what the word means....as Christians. That man is going to pay. I, for one, will not let him steal anything else from me.....and that includes being a part of a group of Christians who meet together to worship, sing, pray and learn. I won't let his perversion of something good rob me of that belonging to the body at large and my smaller assembly in being with the body of my church. He took enough.

Whoa.....wait a second here....it is wrong because men seek structure in serving God? No it isn't. They are still seeking to serve God....it doesn't mean you are following men. The structure of a Sunday Service serves a purpose....it is not wrong in and of itself....it is how we come together. It can be beautiful and full of worship......songs sung to the Lord....prayer ....giving to the needs of others.....it requires some structure. I really do NOT get the problem you guys have with churches. Trust and Obey, Denominations actually serve a purpose. Maybe they are not as divisive as you believe. Consider the church at Jerusalem and James and then the church at Corinth. The focus was different. One was a very poor church, very stern, the other prosperous and a bit wild but highly gifted. Different focus doesn't always mean a bad thing. People require different things. It is when we begin to deny certain basic tenets of our faith in the Lord...we get into trouble.

huh? We already have defined established churches??? They are in every town in America I imagine. Christians BUILT those churches from the ground up.......someone established them and it wasn't Muslims..... The only thing I see here....is eschewing what we have built as Christians and seeking to redefine it.....simply to avoid it.

I am unsure about this man made thing I keep hearing. If Christ is preached and God is worshiped in church....is it a man made thing because of the building? Who prints the bible? That is man made. Is it not man made if there is no structure and you meet by the river? Are institutions man made....or are they structured by men for the purpose of serving God? I think there is some confusion as to what constitutes man made.....maybe? Don't you think possibly God has His hand in the forming of churches for His purposes? I surely do.

Well, with the exception of Philemon, the epistles are directed to churches.....no? Pretty much the whole NT is directed to individual churches....Galatians the whole region. They are even called churches. The church that is at Ephesus, the church that is at Laodicea, Corinthians and on it goes.......if it is not directed at a specific church, then it is addressing how we conduct ourselves within those churches? Some are directed at how elders should conduct themselves within and without the church.......it also tells us what qualifies them to be elders of a church....but, no where do I see "Stay away" No where do I see it doesn't matter. The whole thing pretty much implies we should be a part of a church. Why else would we be told how to conduct ourselves in it? Why else would the Lord give us structure? It is a misnomer to believe that the 1st Century held worship services in the home. They broke bread, they prayed, but if you read throughout Acts...they were daily in the temple. In revelation, Jesus even judges the individual churches. He acknowledges them. I am not against bible studies in the home....but this should be in addition to time set aside to gather and worship. I am not saying that now in countries where there is persecution, they have to hide in homes. We don't have to. It even says Peter and John had a little singing ceremony in prison! :) But, if you can tell me where it says not to go to church....I will listen.

There isn't a great deal of persecution here Oldskool, but, I wonder how many who don't feel they need a church.....would fall on there face and thank God for one......if the right to assemble was gone and we had no where, but a church home to turn to to flee persecution. Are we able to withstand that on our own? What makes us think we can withstand all the other barrages and voices that call out to us.....without some structure and guidance? That is why many in countries where there is severe persecution pray so for us. We have it so easy.....and we take what we have for granted. It is tough enough to get ones own family to stick out the tough times. But, a church family, in the face of opposition or out is bound together in love of Him. It is interesting to me that you mention that verse about gathering in His name. Even with the quickest glance of context it is evident that those verses are speaking of forgiveness and discipline within the church(home bible study) It references how leaders and elders should discipline and restore those who have erred. Structure. From the Lord Himself. Jesus is also acknowledging the Mosaic law of two or more regarding how many witness you need to bring a charge. Chapter 18 starts off with instructions about humility 1-6 punishment of offenders 7-11, 5-9 speaks about the offended brother. The rest of the chapter speaks about forgiveness. How many times should I forgive my brother? Interestingly enough........in the MIDDLE of this chapter is the parable of the Lost Sheep. 12-14 How do you think this fits in? It is the Lord who finds us and carries us back to .....what? The structure and safety of the flock with Him as the head. We are not meant to wander alone. If the point of that verse is how many people are needed for Him to be there....please explain to me about Job, Jeremiah in the dung pit, Jonah. Paul saying....all have forsaken but....John on the Isle of Patmos.....Joseph in a pit, dungeon, or jail..... I don't believe those verses are encouragement to not find a church, but they are encouragement TO find one. What I want to know is......who is to say, when two or more gather.....that Christ is magnified?

You really can't let it go....can you? You are seething. What would help Chockfull, if I repudiated what I understand from scripture and what I have learned through much suffering......so that you don't have to be convicted? Your reaction to my posts......screams conviction. Just so we are clear. If you didn't care so much about what I believe....you would have blown me off pages ago......similar, to what I am about to do to you now. It must prick you pretty deep.

:)

Got it. Maybe a good bible college summer school might work? I will ask around.

It was directed at me Gen-2....sorry you got caught in the fray. I am not going to derail this thread by responding or defending what I said. But, it was not you he was taking a swipe at...it was me.

Does anyone know anything about the Jesuit who helped Mel Gibson with the Passion script? Is he some kind of expert in the field? Does he publish?

I would just consider what the Apostle Paul said in Corinthians and elsewhere concerning those who left the church and lead others astray. Again, you can't control what I believe....if you really think that what you understand and believe is so much better....that is your right...and I respect your right to believe what you want. How many times or ways can I say that? Hey...start a church. Be an itinerant......if you have it all sewn up....and are sure you know what you are saying is the gospel.....truth. Go for it. Nothing more you have to learn about your faith or what we were caught up in. I think I will stick with "churchy". Hey, I admire the twisting it took to defend Tom's use of that as good....and that I shouldn't take it personally. LOL LET IT GO! PEOPLE ARE BEGGING FOR THE THREAD TO GET BACK ON TRACK!!!! DESPISE ME AND WHAT I BELIEVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!! Oh wait, you already did. And Chockfull, these guys we are discussing....what they did....was have an impact on the church....they set reforms in motion.....were somewhat influential in what we have today as contemporary Christian music......and set off a reaction that provides us today with really wonderful places of worship and church homes. It just seems a shame you don't partake fully in what they helped provide for us.