geisha779

Hendricks died a few years ago. I agree in general that people know what they are doing but in Hendrick's case it is up for debate. The man.....could barely compose a grocery list without help. I can't imagine he wrote anything on his own. That would be a stretch. As far as knowing something was morally wrong....fat chance....you have to have morals for that.

Now you are an expert on the brain? You are an expert on brain chemistry, and the neural pathways in our brain which are formed early on in life? Exactly as Waysider is telling you. Why do you suppose it is so difficult to overcome addiction, quit smoking or change ones eating habits? Why are certain behaviors and decision making processes so ingrained in us? Neural pathways. They are formed in relation to our thought patterns and our behavior.....they are carved into our brain!!! Do you know where I learned that it takes at least three weeks of consistently practicing a new behavior before a habit is changed? TWI. It was taught in relation to Isaiah 26:3 and other verses. In reality it does take at least that amount of time to form new neural pathways. Typically, how long was PFAL again? Didn't we often spread it out over three weeks? When there is a huge information overload like we were exposed to in PFAL.....it can rewire those neural pathways and cause an abrupt personality change. The worst of the worst and difficult to overcome. What helps to overcome it is consistent and correct information. But, in your learned opinion none of this is of any consequence......it is unlikely you will educate yourself by listening to those who actually do study the brain and brain function. Why should you....you are an expert on everything....you took PFAL. I remember that suspicion of information that didn't fit neatly into my tight little worldview....how I mocked experts and closed myself off from learning. I shudder to remember it....but I thought and spoke just like you do. Why not take a leap and read about neural pathways.... especially in relation to decision making? I can just imagine what your understanding of free will is according to scripture......I probably once held it myself. While in TWI it was a shallow and short sighted understanding which allowed me to make experts of no consequence. But.biblically speaking .....the concept of man's freewill is one of the most complex topics one can ponder. Not really an obvious thing.

We had to suspend a great deal of reality to believe in VP the first time around....... I remember turning a deaf ear and blind eyes to the MANY warnings about VP......but, with enough good information and solid evidence most of us eventually snapped back. I guess some people just like that suspended reality. Where else can you get God's explicit approval for intense misogynistic thoughts and attitudes.....things our society doesn't even condone?

So, you have had so much exposure to inner workings of female behavior that you are confident enough to generalize about all attractive women and their motivations .....throughout history no less. Oh that's right...you don't have to be an expert to make your comments. It might actually help to know an attractive woman to comment though. According to your logic .... they are all so busy trying to get men to stop and look at them while testing their power....that is an impossibility. You must be surrounded by very shallow women or you have prejudged them and never bothered to get to really know them. Ironically, sadly and pathetically, you quoted LCM to bolster your claims....the very same LCM who has been sued for sexual harassment. Now there is an expert on sexual predators. On the other hand....the posters here have had YEARS of exposure to VP....his personal belief system......his views on women......his misogynistic ranting......and his perversions which consistently spilled over into his handling of scripture. Some posters have had first hand experience with VP's predatory behavior and the rest have heard the testimonials from men and women abused by him. Most of us sent years immersed in the cult VP founded.....spent our vacations at his family farm and supported him with our hard earned cash. Most of us sat in a class where he TAUGHT his views on sex. That may not make us experts on sexual predators.....but it does make us experts on one particular predator. Not only was he a sexual predator, but he was a predator in many things......he even preyed on you. You got some of the worst of it. And...just so you know....most women are actually experts on sexual predators....we don't get through this life....attractive or not....without running into our fair share. You are right though...not all men are pigs. But then again, one who used God, HOLY scripture, his perceived authority, and a handy dandy motor coach to sexually abuse vulnerable and unprotected young women under his supposed pastoral care, he makes it to the top of the list in the world of pigs. That is on any planet. It is all so twisted.

Your "benefit" is showing. At least you are not a poster boy for what damage can be done to a person by long term exposure to VP's misogynistic ramblings and scripture twisting.

So now you are an expert on being an attractive woman? Is there something you are not telling us? I mean ....you just know how women like to dress up for attention from random men....right? Research? Take that chassis out for a spin and see how much power it has? You understand this thought process? This is how attractive women think? What is the age cut off? Is it just single pretty women who do this or do married women also think this way? What about ugly girls....what do they think when throwing on their sweats for another sad day without the responsibility and power of beauty? They must have another focus. Smart girls? Oh wait....what if a woman is smart and pretty? What is she thinking? How do you know all this John.....do you dress up in pretty clothes and do this? You seem to have some serious insight ? Oh wait... your reference is LCM's expertise....well, that explains a great deal. Thanks....I needed a belly laugh today.....and I also needed to know what to wear.....jeans or Prada? You are the expert. Oh wait...I don't have any Prada.....just a closet full of sweats and jeans.....so......according to your logic(I use that word loosely) that must mean I am an ugly girl. LOL If it wasn't so twisted....it would be offensive, but your post passes from offensive into inane and downright comical.

VP came out of the church......he turned away from sound doctrine to embrace sin.....that is why he despised the church so much. He tried so hard to instill that disdain in us.....misery loves company I guess. At one time he knew correct teaching on sexual sin.....but he turned away to satisfy his lust. In hindsight it is glaringly obvious. He turned the grace of God into licentiousness. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. We got caught up in that mess for a time. The good thing is we don't have to continue in it. Steve Lortz is absolutely correct....it is all tainted. PFAL is such a self serving and corrupt reading of scripture. The teacher himself...the man who sold us his class....he left sound doctrine in favor of sin. Sexual sin is especially offense to God according to the scriptures...... and as insane and vocal as they were about homosexuality and purging the ranks to purify them (yuck)...they failed to acknowledge adultery or notice adultery is listed as sinful more often than inordinate affection. Go figure.

I promise not to get too doctrinal but this outrageous post demands a response. There is a huge difference between providing for the unprotected women in the polygamist relationships of the OT where David and Solomon MARRIED multiple women. These vulnerable women fell under their protection with marriage or associated relationship. It was better than being alone and defenseless.......not the ideal situation but better than what might have happened to them if they were left unprotected. Any unscrupulous fool could have abused and used them and justified it with their "needs." No where does it say God approved of all those women. However, the scriptures clearly present monogamy as related closest to God's plan for marriage. So much so that it is a firm guideline for leaders in the church......the husband of one wife. There is a difference between understanding the need to marry for protection in the OT and jumping to the nasty conclusion that a man has need of multiple women because of his "urges" and that is why God allowed it. Geeze.....this is so typical of TWI thinking( and YES there is such an animal)......go right to the lustful rationalization....twist the scriptures and come up with a justification for sin. Make sure to use God to get the stamp of approval. Not only is this twisted...it is unbelievably sinful and offensive. Instead of taking a look at the word in the flesh and how He treated women.....Johniam you have come up with some shallow and base reasoning from the holy scriptures to defend the indefensible. I would be reflective ....one of the most frightening verses in the bible is when Jesus says..."Depart, I never knew you." How do we go from VP sexually assaulting young women who were influenced by him as an authority figure and spiritual leader to rationalization of lust because of OT marriage relationships? People in positions of authority ......real or perceived have a responsibility to their charges. A Godly man knows this and understands those boundaries. There is no such thing as consent in an authority laden relationship and it doesn't get more authoritative than the MOG. .And for the record.....not everyone here is a Christian and just because they SIT in PFAL it is no guarantee they have eternal life. Pick up your bible turn to Corinthians and read what Paul is telling you about genuine and counterfeit. Pick up your bible and read what it means to be born-again.....it is not a formula it is a relationship. The content of faith is what is revealed in Romans 10: 9 & 10 they are not just some magic words. I am totally disgusted.. . . . sometimes things are just too reminiscent of my time in TWI.....I am so glad to be free from all of it and away from people who call themselves Christian but still think like that.

So this is what things look like from that perch you claim for yourself in the heavenlies? I don't know.....I think all sexual predators are rapacious criminals......equally evil. Those who enable them after having the facts don't fall too far behind in the order....... Some yokel with a self-appointed anointing for pastoral care...who leads thousands of people away from the one true God while sexually assaulting the most vulnerable and unprotected young girls under the umbrella of his supposed ministry........and does it in the name of God.......this yokel just might be evil personified. Call me crazy, but knowing some of these wounded souls will never again seek a relationship with God.....will spend years trying to recover.......it doesn't seem like something that would come from a true child of the king. Someone who truly knows and loves the Lord....would never maim in His name. Someone who knows and loves the Lord would never ever minimize or try to defend this man using God's holy scriptures.

Hi JJ, The author did step in and He did clarify.....Jesus (God) stepped into time and He made a rather stunning statement with the crucifixion and resurrection. The faith wagon is a trust in Him. God did speak clearly through Jesus Christ...and He is the final word. He is the word in the flesh....and God demonstrated his love in Christ. He promises peace...even in the Middle East....on His time table. To know Him is to trust Him on all things. He really is worthy of our faith. Anyway..... I am not unsympathetic to your frustration or Abi's as I went through something very similar myself. Ironic, coming from a pseudo Christian cult ....one filled to the brim with bible reading.... you would think something might have clicked for me. It didn't happen until I left TWI. Jesus was MIA in TWI and He is the point of the book. When these questions and frustrations arise....and they do.....I think we were left hanging and empty handed. Just my experience and opinion.

Where is the outrage? I believe Massachusetts went so far as to change the statute of limitation laws on certain sex crimes BECAUSE of the Catholic church scandal. Priests were being moved around and hidden and time would run out to prosecute them......where have you been? The outrage here shook the Commonwealth. Priests were prosecuted, Bishops and Cardinals resigned....I think the Globe coverage got a Pulitzer. VP may be dead, but many of his victims still struggle....where is your outrage over that?

NO offense intended, but this post reminds me of how we would throw out a single verse of scripture in TWI to shore up some argument or another, usually to keep people all thinking the same way. It was as if something should immediately spring to mind when hearing a stand alone verse taken out of context and applied to vague reasoning. Sometimes, a few words would suffice for us in TWI ..."I can do all things'......"Christ in me"......"more than a conqueror"......"exceedingly above"......"by His stripes".......scary how many I can remember. I am sure it wasn't meant that way from you Waysider, sincerely, but I am overly sensitive to that particular tactic. Years of that kind of conditioning and years of overcoming that conditioning have taken their toll on me and I am probably hyper aware of certain triggers. Presumably, you are confident enough in what that one verse means to take it from the whole, from it's direct context........and attempt to make a point of argument with it. If that is the case.....maybe a knowledge of the scriptures is not so esoteric. To answer your question....nothing happened to it......God is no respecter of persons.....gender, race, economic status....and past sins do not serve to keep one from coming to God as He requires. In faith. Nothing, in this country at least, prevents you from picking up a bible.....learning about Jesus Christ.....coming to know Him, what He is like, and deciding what you want to do with that info.... I will tell you that it does help to really get to know someone when trying to understand what they are saying.......to understand why they do certain things. Christians often call Jesus incomparable.....He isn't like us....His dealings with people, His claims, His actions......difficult to compare. That is why Jesus said "I AM". It does help to know how He operated and why He said and did the things He did.....before we decide He simply must be contradicting Himself. :) The point of the bible is not to know the bible it is to know Jesus Christ......who reconciled all things. My opinion ....... nothing more....

That is a pretty arbitrary standard to apply ...... how so? I took a French lit class.....not everyone speaks or reads French......unless explained or translated for non-franchophones not everyone is going to understand French lit .....is that elitist? Last time I sat in an English Lit class not everyone was able to pick up Jane Austen and recognize her critique on life as a woman in 19th century England without being taught how to read it. Many, if not most Muslims believe that the Koran is an exact word for word representation of God(much like we believed about the bible in TWI).....many do not consider translations to be the Koran and believe it must be read in Arabic.....is your same non Arabic speaking Buddhist or Hindu able to pick up the Koran and come away enlightened? I certainly hope you apply your standard equally and stand ready to accuse Muslims of bordering on elitism. The bible deals with spiritual matters......it deals with faith....it coalesces around the person of Jesus Christ. How is it even logical to not read it in light of its spiritual nature, faith, and the person of Jesus Christ. Wouldn't you discern something that is spiritual in a spiritual manner? They also deal with the human condition, with sin, with good and evil.....and the very nature of God. If someone doesn't read them in light of their nature as thee disclosure of God and His interaction with mankind and still demands to understand .....I think that crosses the border of elitism. Note that I didn't say you had to believe them..... You do realize that the bible is about the most scrutinized book we have and millions still understand and believe it. We are not all brain dead or unthinking are we? Actually, you can trot on down to your local Walmart and buy one for around 10 dollars. Still standing under scrutiny. Somehow it has managed to bury its pall bearers..... yet you speak like no one has ever answered the questions you pose. They have been asked and answered time and again......it is up to the individual to decide what they believe about the answers....if they satisfy. It is up to the individual to decide what they believe about Jesus Christ....and oddly enough....the scriptures even address this. They make us responsible for what we believe. Your standard is problematic for me because within the very scriptures you want to understand is the disclosure that you must come in a particular manner and in light of faith in a particular person to understand. Ignore those internal instructions and replace them with an arbitrary standard and expect results.... no, demand results......or cry elitism? I guess that's one way to go....

It might if you were reading it with only a literal perspective......but....Jesus spoke in parables....Jesus used illustrations from everyday life......Jesus walked along pointing and teaching and Jesus rarely spoke in an obvious manner......even His disciples had to ask Him repeatedly to explain Himself.....when He did speak plainly they noted it. "Ah, now you are speaking plainly and not using figurative speech!" They were amazed by His words and they way He spoke...."No one ever spoke the way this man does,"...they were confused by His words.....they were terrified by what He spoke.....and I believe that if you read it so literally without the nuance, the whole, and at least some kind of perspective into the heart of the subject ...yeah, you are going to be confused. What? You never took an English Lit class? There is layer upon layer in scripture.......and Jesus was interacting with people....with individuals.....do you speak to your grandchild the same way you do to your work colleagues? No? I don't think we should expect Jesus to either. Look at the striking difference between John chapter 3 and 4......Nicodemus and the woman at the well.....the tenderness in which Jesus dealt with the women who was a hardcore sinner....and the seemingly brash style with Nicodemus a Pharisee.....there is more there than meets the eye. There is so much depth in those encounters, but it is found in the illustration of His interaction. Why did He chide some of His followers for their lack of faith and deal so sweetly with Thomas? He was dealing with individuals and He knew them. He knew what was in peoples hearts. I don't think scripture is all that obvious and I know in TWI we were taught to look at it that way......plain as the nose on my face......but, maybe that wasn't the right way to approach it. Just a thought .

I wasn't singling you out in the "other" thread and I highly doubt WW was in this thread.....it is just a different perspective Jerry. I can readily accept that you see contradiction in scripture. I just don't accept what you see as a blanket confirmation that scripture contradicts itself in an unresolvable manner. Should I? For me.....most things you would consider a contradiction....speak to me......including Jesus' interaction with the rich young ruler. I have a totally different read on that personal and very human conversation that the Lord had with this man....and when I contrast that with His interaction with Zacchaeus, while bearing in mind that Jesus said......"with men this is impossible but with God all things are possible." I don't see a contradiction. What I see is Jesus illustrating exactly what He said. To me it is an amazing passage. This rich young ruler was sure he had already done the first thing Jesus said .....but, when Jesus said...okay then sell all your stuff and give it away to the poor..... the reality was something else. I see the rich young ruler trying to come to God on his own terms. Jesus challenges that in all of us in my opinion. Jesus' interaction with Zacchaeus was something totally different......Zacchaeus was looking to see Jesus and not looking to gain something.....and the Lord sought him out. With the exception of the thief on the cross....this is the last individual interaction Jesus had and I think it illustrates what Jesus meant when He said" with men this is impossible but with God all things are possible." For me it also illustrates the different manners in which people approach God. It can also be read as insight into the meaning of faith and for me it is not problematic but faith building......so when I say it isn't a contradiction....I am not speaking to personally offend you....I am adding my perspective. Is that okay with you? Can I believe the scriptures and let them speak to me and then add my voice even if it contradicts your perspective? Without it being a personal affront? I don't doubt in the least that you have wrestled with the concept of grace vs works .....coming from TWI it makes perfect sense. I struggled with them as well. For me...I landed somewhere else.....I found my answer at the cross of Christ. That is where it converged for me and where I finally began learning about faith. I know you certainly don't want to hear it from me.......I don't think my insight would satisfy whatever it is you need to get out of the passages that challenge you....but I promise you my perspective is not a slam against your struggle or study.

I like this cover better than the original. These guys cover some nice songs and do an amazing job. Enjoy! <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iDYRDr5EXnE" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

If it bothers us we should be careful we don't do the same thing......and miss the point of the entire passage by not reading it in context, over-all theme, and the point Jesus was actually making. We can easily create a contradiction that isn't really there. Jesus wasn't telling the man works would work for him to gain eternal life....although we could pull that out to make a point. He was telling him, that he had not even done what he had claimed he already did ....which is the first commandment.........to sell his good would have been one of the evidences of this. It was a revelation TO this rich man. Jesus was showing him he couldn't justify himself. It is a great passage for exemplifying the futility of trying to earn our own salvation. This recorded event in the gospels fits perfectly with what Paul said in 1 Corinthians..... If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Why would I say "I don't know"? I can know what Jesus was saying and learn from this passage....it does absolutely fit with God's grace. And Zaccheus was only going to give a portion back......according to the OT law. So, what gets you in? A tenth? Abundant sharing? Selling everything? As far as Jesus needing "revelation" or word of wisdom.....that is ridiculous. The scriptures tell us that Jesus was full of grace and truth....He didn't commit Himself to any man because He knew what was in man.....But, He knowing their hearts.....He didn't need revelation to explain God's grace to this man and to reveal the man's heart. Jesus IS the revelation and the embodiment of all truth. IMO our putting more faith in our understanding of the words in the bible rather than the subject of the bible is what was so problematic in TWI ....a supposed Christian group. My two cents........back to topic........I thought the article was fascinating.

Thank you Waysider.....VP DID say that JC was coming back as Lord God Almighty. Kevin G used to say....that was the only "mistake" made in PFAL. VP said JC wouldn't be spit upon and did that little spit thing in class? You remember this exactly as I do....... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What I failed to understand was the significance of Jesus broken and naked before His creation......I knew that He endured the shame of the cross.....but for some reason, I took away the shame of the cross without taking away the love, mercy, grace, or justice that was displayed. I remember having real disdain for the symbol of the cross and mocking Christian's to whom it was significant. Something was bred in me to hold the cross in contempt and it began in PFAL. I wasn't the only one. I will never forget when the shame of that was fully realized and I repented. Not something I am likely to ever forget.

I don't know......how many times does the bible refer to the MAN Jesus? Why would that cause you to question the trinity? No one, (except maybe the Gnostics :) )is denying that Jesus was fully a man. Trinitarians(for lack of a better word) believe Jesus was fully a flesh and blood man. What I wonder is how many attributes of God did Jesus fail to exhibit or speak about? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The doctrine of the Trinity may not communicate every little nuance of the relationship between God, Jesus and "holy spirit" that we find in Paul's writings, but it DOES communicate the important functional truth that we relate with God the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ by means of Holy Spirit. For me, I believe that Paul's writings are actually communicating to us.....the doctrine of the trinity. This is where it comes from.....the scriptures. This is where we find and learn about the trinity, about God. God is a being in relationship. I am not sure why you would see them as two separate things. There is so much depth to be gleaned from just considering the trinity in relation to ourselves as the creation. I believe it is all there in the scriptures. The doctrine of the trinity is more than just a formula. Anyway....speaking for myself.....it is how I found the Christian faith after whatever it was I was immersed in during my TWI days. <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c9gwoZNudCI" allowfullscreen="" width="420" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

JAL with bible in hand looking for wealthy people to use? Gee......who do I make the check out to? I think that prayer request belongs in the blasphemous hall of shame.

I tend to doubt the scriptures meant being unified around the things TWI rallies around to live together in "unity". TWI's idea of "brethren" is fairly unique as well....and I sure can't see any pleasantness in how they define it....or how they define much of anything. Thanks for posting that Old Skool it is always interesting to see what the old cult is up to these days.

This excerpt is from DA Carson's For the Love of God........the book goes along with a reading plan and I think it is meant as a companion for those who have been recently introduced to the bible. It is a great book for reference and a wonderful reading plan. I relate far better to this perspective myself...it speaks to my own relationship and experience with the Holy Spirit. Here are his thoughts on the passages in question. "THE FAREWELL DISCOURSE, beginning in John 14, includes some extraordinarily rich material on the Holy Spirit. Some highlights: (1) In Greek, every noun is grammatically designated masculine, feminine, or neuter. The word for "spirit" is neuter. When a pronoun referring to "spirit" is used, it too should be neuter. In this chapter, however, the pronoun is sometimes masculine, breaking grammatical form, a way of gently affirming that the Holy Spirit is personal. (2) Among his titles is "Counselor" (14:16), or, in some English versions, "Comforter" or "Helper." When Comforter was coined, it drew from Latin words that meant "to strengthen" or "to strengthen along with." Today a comforter is either a thick quilt or someone who helps the bereaved, and is therefore too restrictive to convey what is meant here. The Greek word is capable of a variety of nuances, so some do not translate it but merely transliterate it (i.e., put it into English spelling) as Paraclete. He is certainly someone who is called alongside to help and to strengthen. Sometimes the help is legal: he can for instance serve as prosecuting attorney (16:7-11), and he may be our legal "Counselor." (The word should not conjure up pictures of camp counselors or psychological counselors.) (3) He is, Jesus says, "another Counselor" (14:16, italics added). In older Greek, this word for "another" usually had overtones of "another of the same kind." By the time of the New Testament, that meaning is fairly rare; it cannot be assumed, but must be demonstrated from the context. In this case, Jesus is clearly promising to send someone who will stand in his place. Intriguingly, apart from its use in the Farewell Discourse, the word rendered "Counselor" is found in the New Testament only in one other place, viz. 1 John 2:1 (NIV: "one who speaks to the Father in our defense"). So Jesus is the first Paraclete. At his impending departure, he promises to send the Holy Spirit, another Paraclete, to and for his followers. (4) He is also called "the Spirit of truth" (14:17). This not only means he tells the truth as opposed to lies, but that he is the true Spirit, the one who mediates the very presence of the Father and the Son to the believers (14:23). (5) The Spirit, Jesus promises, "will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you" (14:26). Since the "you" are being reminded of what Jesus said, in the first instance they must be the first disciples. The Spirit will enable them to recall Jesus' teaching, and flesh out its significance in the wake of the cross and resurrection. How secure would the links have been without his work?"

Me too! When we visit my husband's family.... my sister -in-law insists we attend church with her....a really lovely Catholic church. I enjoy it and can relate to much of what is shared. It is not where I want to worship, but I really like to visit and share the experience. The people are great. In May....I participated in the Last Rites for my half-brother......something I NEVER would have done in TWI. It was so hauntingly human......and oddly beautiful. The Priest was really young and so sweet...and his prayer broke my heart. I don't really believe you can pray someone else into forgiveness while they are unconscious....but, it was the longing and heart behind it that moved me to tears and I added my voice to the prayers. If I had been in TWI or still of the same mindset.....I shudder to think what I might have done or said. It was at the same half-brother's wedding that I refused to pray the Lord's prayer and was so nasty about the church service. That is when I was in TWI. I really believe we can heal from that hard, small mindset and again be tender towards others who believe differently. Goodness...I hope so!!

You can call it whatever you like.......and I don't know where Walter C has gone in his journey......but, if he is still making the same confessions of faith......he is still embracing something other than Christ. Have you ever noticed that the epistles are replete with Paul, Peter, and John going after.....not only the teaching but the people who stood outside the church making aberrant confessions and promoting unsound doctrine? The Apostles did not count them among Christ's followers. They used intense language to describe these men as false teachers. These are the people who lead others astray.....and it all boils down to the Jesus they confess and their understanding of the scriptures. Which group do you think we fell into? The church....or the ones with the unsound doctrine and another Jesus? What is very revealing to me is that you can still believe that VP knew and loved the God of scripture....that his teaching was more or less sound.......and although he habitually sinned in the flesh it is somehow irrelevant to his relationship with God. If VP had not taught things so opposed to orthodoxy.....I might understand it.....but, he taught things so opposed to sound doctrine.....to a pure understanding of the Lord.....I just don't see anyway around examining his behavior. It reveals his heart and it reveals what he knew and understood about God. I am not going to be as fast and loose as you are with terms like the Body of Christ.....born-again....or Christian. They now mean something to me.

VP was very charismatic....he was a really good cult leader...it goes with the package. He even bemoaned being the number two cult when we were behind the Moonies. PFAL 77 "We have to try harder we are number 2" If there isn't someone equally as charismatic to step in and take over when the big dog dies....the cult usually dies with him. This has pretty much happened with TWI. I think we were swayed and persuaded by a persona. It was a cult centered around a personality. His vision, his revelation, his interpretation of scripture, his way. We were incrementally convinced it was the right way. VP was down home and folksy in public.....though this was peppered with some real profanity for the cheap seats..... yeah....he was very good at fooling people...charming people....and a master at entrancing people. He knew the hook to get us started, read the green card......but, there was always another step to learn or another class to take to arrive....... I don't believe VP was sent from God..... yet he surely tried to speak for him. I think it was all a bunch of half truths and outright lies along with a perversion of good......YEP....I think that is evil. The scriptures tell us Satan disguises himself as an angel of light and I believe it. To me, that means we are likely to find him preaching from the pulpit or running your local Christ denying cult. I think VP was a false teacher....and I don't believe they come from God, but rather from the devil. I got that bit from Jesus. And of course I heard the Red Thread from VP...he was a genius at isolating his flock and alienating us from the church..... I remember VP talking trash about Oral Roberts. Call it whatever you want...evil, the devil....bad.....but, VP wreaked a great deal of havoc in peoples lives and in my opinion led people away from true faith. I know I was led astray and hurt by it all. I don't believe I was the only one.