Twinky

Thank God, there are no Wayfers around here that might remind me of what anyone at that place said or did. I agree with you about it sounding a bit sinister. And juvenile, as though those saying it still haven't begun to grow up and think for themselves. But it's a common enough expression... "It's like..." So, where do you start unpicking it? You could startle people by saying, "It's like - that means it isn't..." As in: "It's like Dr W said...." " Ah, it's only like - it's not what he said/did, which was..." "It's like HA said...." " Ah, it's only like - but this is the real deal." Or, "It's not like anything he did, but it is like what my Mom/my teacher/the preacher at church did..." Or, "It's like Dr W did." "Oh, you mean, lied, stole, deceived, coveted money, attacked women, died..." (choose your event) Or simply, "So what?" - or "So what? even HA said sensible things once in a while. Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day; you just don't know when."

I am not reading that, you meanie, Raf.

Yeah, Raf, I know someone will try (WW probably). If anyone does, please preface with a warning. Better yet, link to some page elsewhere so that those who don't want to be reminded don't have to look.

That is a good point, TLC. Especially when we were discouraged from reading the gospels (being as they weren't written to us) except for the select bits in PFAL.

Spec - if you want to know a bit more about grace, try a read of Yancey's "What's So Amazing About Grace?" or Swindoll's "The Grace Awakening." Both are a jolly sight more "accessible" than PFAL.

I think WW is right, one of the supposed benefits was "rest to the soul." Isn't is also supposed to build you up in the inner man? And several other supposed benefits? Haven't thought of these in years and please, nobody remind me by posting here!!! :evilshades:/>

What I know: 1. As a little kid of say 7-9 years old, I'd often spend time "talking in foreign languages" - now whether this was gibberish or SIT I couldn't say. I'd been to Sunday school and loved Jesus in my kiddie way. I'd never heard of SIT as far as I'm aware. As I got older, I made up tunes for the made-up words but didn't spend a lot of time doing either. 2. When I was invited to twig and people SIT/TIP, I actually didn't pay much attention as a "gift from God" or whatever; more, it was, Oh, so other people do this too. 3. Way after TWI, at the church I used to go to and the one I now attend (a "daughter church") (where nobody has ever heard of TWI) at times people just sing quietly in tongues. That freaked me out at first (Waydaze) but it's actually quite musical and pleasant - and a "respectful" and peaceful sound. The people so doing clearly believe they are SIT or whatever they want to call it. 4. Other Christians who I have come to know (from a wide variety of backgrounds and churches) will, alongside someone praying in English or after they themselves have prayed for someone in English - they will very quietly make sounds that are not English; they may say they are "praying in the spirit" or "talking in tongues;" Wayfers would call it SIT. Although I've never heard SIT taught in church (by any name), it's not uncommonly known. How people are supposed to know or learn I have no idea. Nobody seems to either ask or answer that question. But it is widely accepted that some (at least) do do this thing and it's not thought odd or out of order or discouraged. I think some believe it is a special gift that you either get, or don't. I know one elderly woman who dearly wanted to SIT but "hadn't been given the gift" - but both her daughters (who by this time went to different churches) did. They were all escapees from the Exclusive Brethren, which is about as weird as TWI; I doubt they learned about SIT there. None of this makes SIT real or fake - it does mean that there is a huge number of people out there who have been duped, if it's fake. And it would also mean it's a widespread fake across many denominations. Oh, and by the way: I have NEVER encountered any group that "manifests" by SIT/TIP. People who "have a message" are much more circumspect in how they present it or offer it to the congregation.

Hiliarious, Spec. Love the Plagiarize song. Don't often laugh out loud, but that one gave me a real belly-laugh.

And perhaps that's one of the reasons we are as Crhistians encouraged to meet together. So that we can learn from the "pockets of truth" that others have; so that we can see how God is at work in someone else or in some situation; to help us get a bigger picture. Spend enough time with Christians from other denominations or backgrounds, and you'll see common threads in how they feel God talks to them or shows them things, or works in situations. God is bigger than one person, one book, one denomination, one culture. It might not be a bad idea to think about your neighbor, the person next to you in the pew, the colleague at the next desk - and think (with meekness), how does God work in this person's life, and how can I learn from him? This person has Christ in her (the hope of glory); how does that "Christ" serve the world in her life?

Psalms 2:4 isn't about God having a sense of humor at all. It's about God scorning (or scoffing at) the machinations of his enemies. Off topic to this thread: God really does have a sense of humor, but it's more of what you might call good harmless fun. Stuff that allows a kindly chuckle, rather than a searing put-down. (I doubt that's changed, through any "dispensational" period.)

Plagiarism is theft. Intellectual property theft. Theft of ideas. Theft of "work product," as you Americans might say. A sculptor sculpts. Suppose the sculptor makes a beautiful marble statue. An artist paints. Suppose the artist makes a painting, a watercolor of ... his horse, say. Somebody without permission takes the statue or the watercolor away - it's easy to see that as theft. An inventor invents. Devises new ways of doing things. New methods. That's why he patents his ideas, his device, his formula. Because then if anyone uses his ideas without permission - it's theft. An author writes. Suppose the author writes a novel. Or even the factual history of widget manufacture. The writing then becomes copyright. And the right to copy remains with the author, who can grant or withhold permission to make copies or use the material. Somebody without permission takes the words away. It's still theft. And we fell for it. We fell for a load of lies. Peddled by a bunch of thieves. All that came before Jesus were thieves and robbers - as are some of those who've come after him. And we, all Wayfers, are in receipt of stolen property :blink:/>

Oh Sunesis, I so hear you. I'm still wrestling with this myself. I have a "God-concept" but not really a "Jesus concept" or "Christ concept" and wonder about this "relationship with Christ." I have a relationship, sure, but not as fully as some appear to have. It's more like having a relative that you see occasionally (or rarely) - you know they're there and where they fit in your life (like your uncle in another city, say) but the closeness that you might see between siblings or cousins or people who have grown up together and know each other well ... isn't there. Not sure what to do about that.

:offtopic:/> Sunesis, how nice to see you here again after a very long absence.

Not so much FWFs, more leaders who don't care about their people and bilk them for all they can get. Greedy church leaders. Corrupt politicians and pundits too, maybe.

Maybe this? “As for the prophets who lead my people astray, they proclaim ‘peace’ if they have something to eat, but prepare to wage war against anyone who refuses to feed them. 6 Therefore night will come over you, without visions, and darkness, without divination. The sun will set for the prophets, and the day will go dark for them. 7 The seers will be ashamed and the diviners disgraced. They will all cover their faces because there is no answer from God.” (Micah 3:5-7, whole chapter is worth reading) The sun's just set for them...permanently, one hopes. The teachers, the prophets, the ... not on the evangelists, pastors or apostles seeing as there were none.

Skyrider found this thread. It would be nice if Angie had found her brother. Does anyone have an update? I bet dmiller never got a response from the "area coordinators" to his enquiry, either.

Allan, what's he got to say? He was so busy climbing the greasy pole that I'm surprised he had time to notice there was anything wrong. He should come here and find out more than he ever wanted to know. "Wrong" - and he's still an innie? (The fool) Presumably then his wife is with him in this book venture.

And how they know that we know nothing fresh. Nobody coming forward to say how things really are now in TWI, no fresh revelations of Rosie's own sins of leadership. Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.

Okay, Steve, take it away to Doctrinal. I always enjoy your posts. They give me something to think about. The make a lot more bloody sense than PFAL!

Now WordWolf... How do you know dem dere rocks ain't alive? And if dey's alive dey can t'ink. Dey just t'ink at a much slower rate cos dey live at a slower rate. Just plain silly, anyone?

Mark, I'm disappointed in you. Doncha know that trees can walk? They're called Ents. If they stay still for long (years) they become rooted. They can fight, too.

Interesting discussion, but way off track. Maybe Raf can split off part of this into a separate thread? (A "spiritual divorce," if you will)

And that, folks, is how you define your TWI-honed skills and incorporate them in your own resume. And you thought the Way stifled creativity? Look again!

Why isn't TWI as big as it was in the 70s? Why did any of the big cultic things fade? The hippie trail, Indian meditations/ashrams etc. Flower power. Nobody does that stuff now, not in the way it was done in the 70s. Too much else to choose from. Now, there is a huge choice of other cultic activities to join. When one gets boring or legalistic or even just restrictive, it's time to move on. Not really related to TWI, but the incidence of cults continues to grow. And yes, you can join from your basement or your bedroom or wherever private place you inhabit. Seekers for truth or spiritual enlightenment can find any number of teachers on the web. Extreme examples nowadays are those young fools who try to follow Muslim enlightenments, and find themselves in terrorist websites that encourage them to join banned organisations, run off to dangerous countries, and blow themselves and others up. That's extreme cultic mindset. There are cultic Christian groups on the web too. I don't doubt that VPW would have fancied being an internet/TV preacher given half a chance: he did set up a radio program, after all, using the technology of the day to promote his ... himself!

Maybe you can change the past. You learn more about why your parents made or forbade you doing something. As an adult you can decide they weren't being mean but actually said that because they loved you. So you choose to change the past by acknowledging their concerns for you AND you can change how you feel about whatever was compelled or forbidden. You can look at your life and consider how it would have been affected if you had done. .. whatever. Maybe you can't change the physical events that were painful - a death, an accident - but you can change your attitude and your perspective, and that in turn does change the eventerms somewhat. And before you all complain, there are definitely some heartrending things in my life that I wish had never happened and that really cannot be changed.