Twinky

What a total load of bullocks. How much more inventive can TWI be, in belittling people? Most everyone you meet has a debt - a mortgage - that they are working to pay off. It's cheaper than renting, often. (Even though my mortgage is quite a lot of money, it would be nearly twice as much to rent a similar place - and I couldn't rent anywhere remotely habitable for what I pay in mortgage... a grotty bedsit, maybe?) (Actually, I couldn't even afford to rent a place!!) Debt has risks, true, but there are risks in not having debts. Much better to help people think about their money in a proper manner, learn to budget properly, and work out the best way to borrow if there is really no other way. My church hosts a Christians Against Poverty debt centre to help people in debt. Helps them manage finances, gives them a compassionate hand up when they're crushed by debt, sets up debt plans and even bankruptcy (so as to give a fresh start). Isn't that a better way to encourage people with debt - rather than beat them over the head with Bible verses? And the gentle compassionate approach - guess what! - leads some people to choose to become very thankful Christians.

T-Bone, you really do crack me up!!

I daren't even begin to imagine how nuts this page would have been over the last few months if there'd still been a Political forum. Or how even nutsier it would be after tomorrow - whichever candidate wins - neither of whom appears to have much merit. But that's another story, and not one for here.

KEEP YOUR BLOODY HANDS OFF ME and KEEP THAT YUCKY-LOOKING THING ZIPPED WHERE IT BELONGS. Or maybe - Go do something interesting to yourself with that Zimmer frame. Or maybe - You seem very lonely, sitting there in the corner of the retirement home. Nobody comes to talk to you and you never have visitors. How very sad for you.

Perhaps a bunch of local ex-Wayfers should show up at his installation. Just to add congratulations from the Cafe, y'understand.

Shout it loud, Allan!

Hey, DWBH, you know I don't like your rants - but you're entirely on the money with this one! He's seen it all, heard it all, must know... Maybe he harbours some desire to reform TWI from within... anyone with sense (like you) would have got out years ago. i used to like him; worked with Michele and liked her a lot... but that was a looooonnnnngggggg time ago. I've (dare I say it?) <<outgrown>> TWI and its pettiness and exclusionism and its tinpot dictators. But some have <<ingrown>> and who knows how they have changed. Not for the better, I sadly suspect.

Grace, it wasn't just one woman who was raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by VPW. There were very many. Very many. And it wasn't just assault by VPW but by LCM and other top leaders. Well - some weren't even "top leaders." And they weren't even all just American leaders. What I'm saying is that "Word over the World" aka Assault over the World, was just that. Assault over the (Way) World.

You're so funny, T-Bone

Not petty - just stating what happened. Yep, some got a free pass if they had money or connections. And some were merely fodder or toys. All the while, of course, with the perpetrator(s) not being "a respecter of persons".

Good for you, Grace Valerie Claire. You missed some horrible times in TWI as the organization went into meltdown, well a worse meltdown than usual. A warm welcome to the Cafe!

Welcome, MnMum. You've chosen a dramatic and provocative thread for your first post :) Enjoy your time at the Cafe.

I tore mine up and put them in the woodburner, I think. Didn't want to give them away in case they got someone else interested in the content and they contacted TWI and ended up getting involved. i know I burned my Corps notes and practically everything else. Took a long time.

I can add little to this but can give a different European perspective. 1984 was the WoWFest in Amsterdam. My first big gathering of believers. There were heaps of people. I can't remember all the people that were there - but Geer was there being the big cheese. He wanted the WoWFest to be a calendar year thing in Europe rather than Aug-Aug as in the USA. I attended with British WoWs, but they were already on the field, don't know how or where they were appointed - before I met any of them - one of them witnessed to me in about the October. Even at that point. Geer's ego struck me as being inappropriate for a clergyman. I remember the WowFest the following year (in Gartmore) better, but that's not the time being enquired about.

Belle, glad to see you back posting here. You and a few others here really helped me get my head back in order after a number of "lost years" after I was M&A'd. And after the shock of reading all the horror stories that were posted at the Cafe at the time I discovered it. You and a few others provided helpful advice and you sent me some articles - think I have them still.

Hello Belle! Very long time since you've posted here. I recall you especially - you offered such helpful advice when I first found the Cafe - wow, over ten years ago now.

Did well at that, then.

From the newspaper article Rocky linked: "I want to see him get a fair trial based on what did or didn't happen, not what his beliefs are, that's really important to me," Risk [defense attorney] said. From SopUSA: "COMMENT: The age of consent, for sexual purposes, in Minnesota is 16-years-of-age. However, as is true in many states, if the actor (defendant) is in a “position of authority” over the person (minister, teacher, counselor, employer, etc.), the person must be 18. Criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is the most serious charge for such conduct in Minnesota. Multiple charges can be alleged for different acts at different times. Minnesota has “Sentencing Guidelines” in place which are intended to provide even justice for all offenders. The guideline sentence for criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is 144 months; however, in this case, there are at least two victims which would permit sentences for both. Moreover, a judge can sentence higher or lower than the recommended guidelines where there are compelling circumstances. The defendant is presumed to be innocent." What did happen is: Barnard engaged in sexual conduct with UNDER AGE FEMALES and furthermore he purports to be a MINISTER (person in position of authority). That's what "did or didn't happen" and his beliefs are totally irrelevant. So what was Risk's point again???

Hey, the man has a compassionate streak: " Barnard pleaded guilty to two of 52 counts and agreed to upward departure. In court, Barnard said he wanted to spare the victims a trial." Nah, he simply couldn't bear the thought of all the gory details about himself being exposed. 30 years doesn't seem enough for the misery he's caused, but it'll probably mean the rest of his life. Which may not be anything like 30 years.

I had a quick look at the poster. Not enticing... :( The pic in the top right corner of a man reading under a lampshade surprised me. At first glance (at a thumbnail sketch) I thought it was a seated figure with an enormous paddle behind them, for the beating of small children. ...My bad...

Hi StayQuiet. Welcome to the Cafe. It's going to be hard for you to cut ties with TWI because it may mean cutting ties with your parents, depends on how hard-line they are. Take your time, amass information so that you are confident in your decisions. Try and find some good supportive older friends or contacts who are non-Way related (your friends' parents?). As an adult [Mod Edit] you're old enough to go it alone, but "alone" is a lonely place to be with a culty background. You can also private message people here that you think you can trust, or who can help or advise you. When I got out (long ago) it was the wisdom of some people here (whose names I still don't know) that really helped me.

I have it from several sources that it's Jean-Yves de Lisle. Apparently it was announced over a year ago. People on a Facebook site seem to be aware of that. I worked with Michelle for a while. She was "good value" and fun to be around. I liked JY too though didn't know him as well. He's a trustee... he must know what's gone on and is going on... if he doesn't, he's failing in his duties and responsibilities as a trustee. At the very least, he must know that Rosie and her girlfriend are cohabiting and that runs counter to what TWI teaches - and hasn't confronted the hypocrisy. Which makes him a tacit approver and also a hypocrite. Ah well. The blind leading the blind. And they all fall into a very big ditch.

Heh heh, could be real fun if it were Donald. Ahahahahhahahahahah!!! Can you imagine!!!

Can't see that happening - those kids all ran off as soon as they could. Some of them have wound up here. Good for them!

I have it on good authority that Rosie has announced her retirement! At a recent big meeting, Rosie came out and said that she would be stepping down as of 1/1/17. She said "I'm excited about it too." She has named her replacement but I am not at liberty to divulge his name at present. But "close to home," you might expect. And, as you might also expect - there is no announcement on their website, which doesn't appear to have been updated for many months. Hi, Mr Linder! The news is out!!