Twinky

"Diameter of the Ages," what the heck is that? This class sounds like "Die-a-Minute" - the excerpt that DWBH posted is more than enough for me. :confused:/>

It was a wonderfully exciting time being in rez with that awesome President, Craig, to teach us the ways of a man of God. I learned some amazing things. Like, what a 40 year old man looks like when he's having a serious tantrum. Like, lots of interesting ways to curse other people. Lots of swear-words that were new to me. Like, how pozzest and ungodly were homosexuals. Like, how unworthy I was, and how gracious the tantrum-thrower was in allowing me to stay in rez and learn even more from him. How weak I was in not coping with 20 hr days. How sinful it was to talk to staff members. Like, how unworthy practically all of my in rez Corps was. How gracious he was in allowing us to stay and be guided by him. :evilshades:/>

I'm not a thread killer, DWBH. But the calm, more measured, objective, style often reaches people more than a rant does. You only have to read VPW's letters for rants, and think of the face-meltings many here endured. Imitating his style...isn't a good look, IMO. Can't we be objective, not objectionable? Jesus called the Pharisees "nests of vipers" but he is kind to those who want to listen (including Pharisees). He did not mock people's names. He called them on their attitudes and (lack of) love for God. He did not attack anyone who loves God, even when they are in error. If he screamed at his followers in the behavior that has been modeled for us by some leaders - d'ya think he would have any followers? Wouldn't he be a "thread killer"? (A "red thread" killer, maybe.) But that's not how he behaved. And it's not what befits any other Christian leader, of any organization - or cult.

Thanks, modcat. Makes a much better read now. And won't put off newbies/lurkers.

DogLover... You appear to be suffering from Waybrain, so sorry! The super-spiritual (LOL! gasp!!) man invented it. Or was listening to the wrong kind of spirits (liquid ones, maybe.) And don't forget that Mr Super-Spiritual died of cancer; more than one type. But anyway: 1. If you were to believe that cancer is caused by devil spirits, then also remember: 2. Then also believe that Jesus Christ is bigger than, and casts out, devil spirits. No problem!!

:offtopic:/> That's one reason to use the Private Messaging facility. Investigate the area at the top right of the screen. Click by your name, and you will find Messenger. You need to [start to] type in the addressee's name (not initials). Hey presto! No derails!

And, FWIW, I was a dyed in the wool TWIt, hadn't been satisfied with any church, boring; here was someone who knew some Bible!! And I went through WC training and did all the rubbish things like alienating my family and friends (or rather, alienating myself) blah blah, finally got thrown out. Which though devastating at the time turned out to be a real blessing. Don't know when I would have left otherwise. Probably have ended up being ... I won't speculate, but a lot of women were abused and someone had been having a go at me, "softening me up." It was awful. Awful. I was depressed for about 10 years. Near suicidal. But now - I make lemonade from it. I thought I had compassion before. Maybe... but nothing like now. I didn't understand abused women, and how they kept returning to abusing partners. I do now. I didn't understand a lot of things... I do now. I've not "changed" to become a different person. I've changed to become freer to become ME.

Excellent post, Penworks. It seems to me that not only can we change as we grow older, but that we should change. When one is 5 years old, parents and other adults give information and instructions. As one ages, that information and instruction may change. And as the information and instruction changes, it ought to change the shape of each individual. The five year old gains understanding and wisdom. Becomes able to make its own decisions, give itself "instructions." That growing and ability to make decisions is called maturity but does it have a finite point? We know only in part - and that will remain so all our lives. And so we are never fully mature, all our lives. Just more mature than we were a few years earlier (perhaps). Do you still believe and act as you did when you were five years old? Few adults do. If you went to tertiary education or professional training, do you still think the same as you did before? Or do you have more wisdom to make decisions? Are you better able to foresee possible outcomes? Yes, you changed! You don't think as you did, when you were a child. Have crises affected your life - maybe the death of a loved one with whom you'd been very close? Maybe a severe accident (they're not called "life-changing injuries" for nothing!)? Yes, you changed! You learned to adapt to the new circumstances. Your underlying personality probably never changes; it's how you express that personality. And what you take into account. What you allow to affect you. How you deal with things. We are not set in stone. We are not required to have hearts of stone - in fact, quite the opposite. We are required to change - to be transformed - to become different people. And yet, remain true to ourselves. And to our God (if we have one!). We should embrace the opportunity to grow and change. It's exciting.

I think that almost qualifies as a "Grease Spot Gem."

Apologies, it looked right when I posted it but re-reading makes it less than logical. Thanks, Modcat. It did feel like I was about to become victim to some of DWBH's ire. I don't like the way he shouts and calls people names; he knows this. Anger at some of he higher-ups I can understand; anger at other posters is out of order. If people shout, I just smile and back off... don't re-engage. I have to say, I'm getting really fed up with the bickering here at the Cafe. Maybe I will just back off... for a long while... I only stay because I hope that a calm and rational voice might be appreciated by some.

You know, if you wanted dto post this on the Doctrinal thread I referred to, it might be helpful to some people: I think that could add something to the discussion there. If you want to post that, I'll reply to it there.

I have no PoV about this, DWBH. Yes, 7 post is deathly silence, compared with the noise some innocuous-looking topics provoke. I don't know what you mean by "if the shoe fits." Do you mean anything? (Rhetorical: no need to answer that)

I started a thread on that in Doctrinal. There's a lot of heated souting about differences, but when I asked the question - there was a deathly silence.

Outie, that's the trouble when DWBH posts his daft names for people. He means Don Weirwille.

Well, sort of, WW, but not quite. It has to be: "Thy will be done" first and foremost. Then, the truly humble, meek, "I'll do thy will" - or maybe, "I will do THY will" as an emphatic statement of personal intention to submit.

My word, I just noticed that I have been supping the coffee in the Cafe for just over 10 years. And I have come a bloody long way in ten years. Thanks in no small way, especially initially, to the Cafe patrons, without whom I'd still be wallowing in Waybrain. And thanks also to the community of Christians at my local church, the one that healed me enormously from Waybrain. And also to the community of Christians in the churches I now attend (one of which is a "daughter church" to the first one). Life is GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!:dance:/>

It may be time to move to another church, Tom... or it may not. You will probably find that most churches have some degree of "error" (especially if you look through TWI-stained glasses). If nothing else, pretty much all churches will be trinitarian and promote the "Jesus is God" doctrine. Look at the overall balance of what they teach; can you live with what you believe is doctrinally "off"? What's their response if you raise any queries (meekly, of course!)? How do the people treat each other, and what outreach do they have (genuine outreach and interest in helping community)? For myself, I attend two different churches regularly. I enjoy the fellowship of others in both. I say a silent "don't think so" at some points, and won't sing all the words of hymns, but I don't raise problems. I see what things the individuals do and how they give their lives; I'm thankful to be a part of such awesome generosity of heart and time - and money. One of the groups to which I belong (Street Pastors) comprises Christians from a minimum of four different churches (denominations) and when we are out serving the people of our community, we speak of things we have in common - the things that unite us - not the things we disagree about. There are fundamental points that you can agree, one hopes, with any Christian - does any congregation you might join live those fundamental points? If not - it really is time to move on.

Tom, how does your preacher-man get on with Heb 4:12, where a clear distinction is made? 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and* spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Soul/spirit Joints/ marrow Thoughts/ intent All very very close - but not identical, not the same thing, not interchangeable.

I don't know why this would be a bad thing for the US. I think it could only benefit. Here's a better article: TPP - Wikipedia It's nice for the USA that the USA has been invited to participate in this Pacific Rim arrangement, which has been something the countries from New Zealand to Japan have been keen on for a long time. From the point of view of smaller nations (like NZ) I'm not so sure it's a good thing, but those countries seem to think so.

I've been looking at some of these letters at random. Jeepers, the whiny tone of the letter of Dec 28, 1981. And the duplicity. About love of money, two-drink limit, and sexual addiction. Barf!!

DWBH, the problem for me with some of your posts is that in TWI we got so used to bile and vile spewings and name-calling that when someone starts up with this line of speech, it moves me (at least) into "closed ears" position. It washes over me and just leaves me feeling annoyed, and disappointed at the person yelling. So I miss whatever pearls there might be. That's whether it's someone physically shouting, or "shouting" via written material. The shouting makes it seem too personal - an "I don't like you" kids' name-calling. Whereas Charlene, for example, has a more dispassionate (ie, detached, not that she's not passionate!) approach. She can be just as excoriating, but does it quietly and very pointedly: no name-calling but lots of facts. And I "pin back my ears" to hear what she has to say. You have a lot to say and to share about the inner workings of TWI. A calmer, more reasonable, factual, approach just might get you heard more, by some people who lurk and post here. Be quietly deadly. It's more painful Revenge, as the saying goes, is best served cold. Deadly cold. You can still be a clarion call, a wise warning. Heh heh.

Could be that someone just clicked on the relevant part of the poll.

Time to reap what he sowed. Prayers / thoughts / good wishes (depending on your PoV) to his victims (all of them) - it may be a very difficult time for them over the next few months while the trial is being arranged.

Let us know how it goes, BlueCord. Resist evil and it will flee from you. Resist TWI and eventually it will give up harassing you to your face. They'll just slander you both and M&A you. So you may lose the friends you think you have in TWI because if they contact you, they too will become possessed. Don't be surprised.

Rocky, the title was (given to me): "An Answer of Truth in the Face of Accusation" - basically intended I think as a word study of the word Apokrinomai and a study of the gospel of John, where this word mostly occurs, where it's usually translated: "he answered and said,,," and is frequently used where Jesus responds to the Pharisees and his other attackers. And I think LCM must have intended it as some sort of get out of jail free card - justification for his yelling or justification for his adultery or some such. But I checked the word in Septuagint, compared with use in the OT, considered lots of words in the OT esp (I think) the word Shaphat, which was the Sept-equivalent word. Looked at all usages. It took me to God's desired care that we mortals should extend to our families and extended families, personal relationships, and right living. I roamed all over all the Bible except (perhaps) Revelation, picking up first one aspect then another. It took in graciousness and forgiveness. Basically, I came to the conclusion that the "Answer of Truth in the Face of Accusation" is to be right-living, lining up one's behaviour with that desired by God, an honest-to-God lifestyle., So of course that's what I wrote. The Answer of Truth is the way we live. It's not just in the words we use (which very little of my thesis touched upon) to respond to people. When we live right, then we can speak right and answer our accusers. There is integrity behind our words when we do respond with words. It was also written in a readable but scholarly fashion, not folksy anecdotes, but tightly and forensically, and using carefully chosen words. I was a lawyer in another life; sloppy wordsmithing can lead to clients' cases failing badly, So you can see why my conclusions about the Answer went down like a lead balloon :confused:/>. And perhaps why there wasn't much in the collaterals about this !!