Twinky

Not in the church congregations to which I now belong. One sets out to be a "lifeboat and a hospital" to get out and rescue hurt people. Its parent church has a lot of people who have belonged to other abusive churches. I wept for the first six months' services when I started attending there, as the pain and hurt were washed away. At the other church I attend, I've never had any concerns. Big differences are that there are very robust processes involved to deal with abusive, harmful or difficult situations. Dealing with issues is of great concern. Leadership can be approached at all times. Leadership will deal (if necessary) with disputes that may cause division in the church. Sexual impropriety is dealt with as soon as it is known about. NOBODY ever gets yelled at or publicly disgraced or slandered. Now I think of it - yes, I have deliverance. The church minister (of a large congregation) said something that seemed to me inappropriate. I sought a meeting with him (a "confrontation" TWI might call it) and we talked about it. It was handled nicely and lovingly on both sides. And strength was built and nobody was torn down. The thought of someething like that happening at TWI is so unlikely as to be - well, laughable hardly touches it..

Geshem, welcome. Nice to hear from a current "innie." You may find, as you read in these forums, that many here were impressed by young leaders who genuinely had a heart for God and God's people. They, and others, ministered healing, taught well, lived well, and had a great lifestyle of living and loving Godliness. That's what kept TWI afloat. Unfortunately, when one enters the Way Corps - that's when it all starts going very badly wrong. Where the legalism really starts to bite. And where the young leaders' Godliness, spirituality , individuality and enthusiasm gets crushed out. Many have had good intentions. Many hearts were broken by the harshness of WC life. Those in the know at the top were corrupt from the beginning. They taught that to their inner circle. Not all were abused and not all were in the inner circle to be corrupted so badly. Some who did learn of the inner workings tried to change things from within. So far, none has achieved this. I am sorry to say that some of those younger leaders who stuck around - are no longer young and are no longer great examples of Godliness. Rather, they exemplify debauched leadership in the style of the sons of Eli (1 Sam 2:22 in particular). Take care of your heart, if you decide to stay. Be wise as a serpent, and do not believe all you see or hear.

Check out National Business Review and about halfway down their page is an album of photos. One of the photos has some video footage attached showing the railway line and SH1. National Business Review You can also try this Facebook link: NBR Album

It's now been upgraded to a 7.8 magnitude (from 7.5) which means it has THREE TIMES as much energy as the lower magnitude quake. As well as the huge initial two simultaneous quakes, there have been aftershocks (some themselves very big) every minute or so. Also, the following couple of days saw heavy rain and very high winds, so damaged roofs and other structures got torn away. The main road SH1 and only railway line run along a tiny rim of land squished between the sea and the mountains, occasionally through little tunnels because there wasn't even a rim of land. Well now of course there is nothing, the train track has been pushed out to sea (still intact!) and the huge slips cover rail and road. What's left of the road... some parts have drops of several feet, or the road surface has a severe bend near right-angled in the middle of it. There are many photos online. I will try to find a link. The town of Kaikoura is cut off, but some ships have made it to the area with food and water supplies, and helicopters are flying out the tourists and the elderly, injured or frightened.

Country has been rocked by several earthquakes of very high magnitude, including the initial TWO that were milliseconds apart - about 50km apart, one was a sideways shift and the other a vertical shift. Many severe aftershocks. Some buildings collapsed, many landslips preventing rescues. So far, only two confirmed fatalities, one being a heart attack. Please pray for these frightening shocks to settle down and for rescuers and those checking existing buildings and rebuilding the infrastructure, water supplies, etc This will give latest news: NZ Stuff

Grace, I don't think she has "little protection" - I know the opposite is true. Key phrase is " very little obvious protection detail." We keep things a bit lower key here in the UK.

What a total load of bullocks. How much more inventive can TWI be, in belittling people? Most everyone you meet has a debt - a mortgage - that they are working to pay off. It's cheaper than renting, often. (Even though my mortgage is quite a lot of money, it would be nearly twice as much to rent a similar place - and I couldn't rent anywhere remotely habitable for what I pay in mortgage... a grotty bedsit, maybe?) (Actually, I couldn't even afford to rent a place!!) Debt has risks, true, but there are risks in not having debts. Much better to help people think about their money in a proper manner, learn to budget properly, and work out the best way to borrow if there is really no other way. My church hosts a Christians Against Poverty debt centre to help people in debt. Helps them manage finances, gives them a compassionate hand up when they're crushed by debt, sets up debt plans and even bankruptcy (so as to give a fresh start). Isn't that a better way to encourage people with debt - rather than beat them over the head with Bible verses? And the gentle compassionate approach - guess what! - leads some people to choose to become very thankful Christians.

T-Bone, you really do crack me up!!

I daren't even begin to imagine how nuts this page would have been over the last few months if there'd still been a Political forum. Or how even nutsier it would be after tomorrow - whichever candidate wins - neither of whom appears to have much merit. But that's another story, and not one for here.

KEEP YOUR BLOODY HANDS OFF ME and KEEP THAT YUCKY-LOOKING THING ZIPPED WHERE IT BELONGS. Or maybe - Go do something interesting to yourself with that Zimmer frame. Or maybe - You seem very lonely, sitting there in the corner of the retirement home. Nobody comes to talk to you and you never have visitors. How very sad for you.

Perhaps a bunch of local ex-Wayfers should show up at his installation. Just to add congratulations from the Cafe, y'understand.

Shout it loud, Allan!

Hey, DWBH, you know I don't like your rants - but you're entirely on the money with this one! He's seen it all, heard it all, must know... Maybe he harbours some desire to reform TWI from within... anyone with sense (like you) would have got out years ago. i used to like him; worked with Michele and liked her a lot... but that was a looooonnnnngggggg time ago. I've (dare I say it?) <<outgrown>> TWI and its pettiness and exclusionism and its tinpot dictators. But some have <<ingrown>> and who knows how they have changed. Not for the better, I sadly suspect.

Grace, it wasn't just one woman who was raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by VPW. There were very many. Very many. And it wasn't just assault by VPW but by LCM and other top leaders. Well - some weren't even "top leaders." And they weren't even all just American leaders. What I'm saying is that "Word over the World" aka Assault over the World, was just that. Assault over the (Way) World.

You're so funny, T-Bone

Not petty - just stating what happened. Yep, some got a free pass if they had money or connections. And some were merely fodder or toys. All the while, of course, with the perpetrator(s) not being "a respecter of persons".

Good for you, Grace Valerie Claire. You missed some horrible times in TWI as the organization went into meltdown, well a worse meltdown than usual. A warm welcome to the Cafe!

Welcome, MnMum. You've chosen a dramatic and provocative thread for your first post :) Enjoy your time at the Cafe.

I tore mine up and put them in the woodburner, I think. Didn't want to give them away in case they got someone else interested in the content and they contacted TWI and ended up getting involved. i know I burned my Corps notes and practically everything else. Took a long time.

I can add little to this but can give a different European perspective. 1984 was the WoWFest in Amsterdam. My first big gathering of believers. There were heaps of people. I can't remember all the people that were there - but Geer was there being the big cheese. He wanted the WoWFest to be a calendar year thing in Europe rather than Aug-Aug as in the USA. I attended with British WoWs, but they were already on the field, don't know how or where they were appointed - before I met any of them - one of them witnessed to me in about the October. Even at that point. Geer's ego struck me as being inappropriate for a clergyman. I remember the WowFest the following year (in Gartmore) better, but that's not the time being enquired about.

Belle, glad to see you back posting here. You and a few others here really helped me get my head back in order after a number of "lost years" after I was M&A'd. And after the shock of reading all the horror stories that were posted at the Cafe at the time I discovered it. You and a few others provided helpful advice and you sent me some articles - think I have them still.

Hello Belle! Very long time since you've posted here. I recall you especially - you offered such helpful advice when I first found the Cafe - wow, over ten years ago now.

Did well at that, then.

From the newspaper article Rocky linked: "I want to see him get a fair trial based on what did or didn't happen, not what his beliefs are, that's really important to me," Risk [defense attorney] said. From SopUSA: "COMMENT: The age of consent, for sexual purposes, in Minnesota is 16-years-of-age. However, as is true in many states, if the actor (defendant) is in a “position of authority” over the person (minister, teacher, counselor, employer, etc.), the person must be 18. Criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is the most serious charge for such conduct in Minnesota. Multiple charges can be alleged for different acts at different times. Minnesota has “Sentencing Guidelines” in place which are intended to provide even justice for all offenders. The guideline sentence for criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is 144 months; however, in this case, there are at least two victims which would permit sentences for both. Moreover, a judge can sentence higher or lower than the recommended guidelines where there are compelling circumstances. The defendant is presumed to be innocent." What did happen is: Barnard engaged in sexual conduct with UNDER AGE FEMALES and furthermore he purports to be a MINISTER (person in position of authority). That's what "did or didn't happen" and his beliefs are totally irrelevant. So what was Risk's point again???

Hey, the man has a compassionate streak: " Barnard pleaded guilty to two of 52 counts and agreed to upward departure. In court, Barnard said he wanted to spare the victims a trial." Nah, he simply couldn't bear the thought of all the gory details about himself being exposed. 30 years doesn't seem enough for the misery he's caused, but it'll probably mean the rest of his life. Which may not be anything like 30 years.