Twinky

Think you missed something really nasty going down in the USA, Grace. The shambles you found on your return must have been startling.

Better stop editing my long post above. I could get really mad and pick lots of holes in their arguments.

Thanks for posting that, CD. I watched it so's you-all here don't have to. But go ahead if you want to bore yourselves silly! There was a lot of laughs and tittering going on; all good pals together, how nice we all are Their remarks in ordinary text, my comments in blue. We think it's inappropriate for one - or sometimes two - people to make the decision to drop someone from the Corps. Seriously? How many people have been kicked out over the many years these people say they've been part of TWI? And they only just noticed?? Some of those M&A'd have been dumped by members of this very group of "reformers." Next, it's Biblical to confront, and then if "there's no appropriate response to this inquiry, the next step we'll need to take it is to bring to the Way Corps household"? (12m18s) - and quotes scripture (1 Tim 1:19-21) to support this?? Yes, the man said this! Way Corps calling is one of the gifts and callings of God and is without repentence (Eeeekkk!) (about 16m) We would publish our letter [to the BoD] for all the believers to see if God told us to and if there was no response (so far the response is non-repentance) (23m) Acts 15 is a good precedent for a meeting to discuss things (26m) - well, not quite, that was a discussion about doctrine; these people's dispute is about leadership, Rosalie's in particular. Why should we have to monitor our actions because our Biblical ministers (!) might get mad at us? (32m) - good question! Especially from someone who did just that and monitored (spied on) the in-rez Corps relentlessly! Can't speak for later years - the spying got significantly worse (after I got M&A'd) with the mandated time plans everyone had to submit. The word will always need to be researched to make sure we get to the integrity and accuracy of God's word. To think we've arrived at the final answer on every topic in the word of God is erroneous. There will always need to be filters to make sure there's no PI. (36m) ... well now... hmm... how about researching by doing and - you know what? God invites us to test him out. We're not going to do that by sticking our heads in concordances or whatever. We get out there and serve people. Did Jesus "research" to find out whether he could feed huge crowds? Is "research" how he walked on water? (I can't recall any kind of precedent for that.) Or did he just do by committing his action in prayer to his Father? "It's about the body of Christ working together" - ie, working from within to change TWI and not joining a splinter group. mmm. how about finding out about the body of Christ? It's more than just TWI (is it even TWI??) - there are some awesome and doing Christians out and about who most certainly are part of the body of Christ. Some of these humble individuals, just ordinary folks, no degrees or fancy titles, no great research skills, have achieved more than all the "leaders" in TWI put together. Eye witness accounts are valuable (48m) - so please listen to what people have been saying for years. Try this forum!! The joy of being a fellowship coordinator is that you get to work with God! God works in the fellowship coord'r (49m) - wow! explosive stuff. God in Christ in the fellowship coordinator! Note: not in the individual believers. Sad. And they seem to have difficulty dealing with having been M&A'd (51m). Doncha feel sorry for them? We're part of the new, dynamic church (52m) and it's okay to disagree (54m) - yeah yeah yeah. Does that include other Christians, and other understandings of the Bible? I am not impressed, nor lured into thinking I want to go back, be a part of this, be a chosen one. I don't doubt for a moment that these folks are sincere, but as we all have been told, that's no guarantee for truth.

Hilarious, Tonto and Oldskool

Nah, the elites at the top will also eventually be given the push, like the Moynihans. Until it's only the BoD left, and such drones as remain at HQ.

Hey, that should give the R&R group some credibility!

They should all stay where they are. Keep out of the way of normal people! I know! Let's capture them all and build a wall, a great wall, all round the NK property!

More and more of the same twaddle, mudslinging, and refusal to look at what's really going on. Sad.

Oh, is that the 7-page letter? Not a physical confrontation? (still have to read the letter... if I can bear doing so)

Errrr... what was this, anybody know anything? The BoD was confronted?? By whom? Outcomes? Quoted words followed by: "The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant." This sounds not unlike Skyrider's account of Corps couples lining up to be fired!

Wow, has TWI decided to USE the internet for something, rather than decry its inherent wickedness? Tough on the Moynihans, but hey, they dished it enough. Hoist (hoised) with their own petard, maybe? [means, "blown up with their own bomb," for those who love figures of speech]. "Unbiblical behavior"- spit, whatever could that be, JY the puppet-king?

Likewise, BlueCord. Took me years to pluck up the courage to get a mortgage. And I lost my job (market crash :( yuck) a few months after my house purchase! Now, ten years on, the mortgage is down by nearly £80K and I have only about £28K to go. I could not rent anything near what I own, for the amount. Actually to rent my house would cost about twice what I pay in mortgage. I don't tithe, but I do give to support my church and a couple of worthwhile charities whose work I respect. One is a Christian organization, one is not. I am thankful for what is available to me FREE (or nearly so) in my country and would like to help those in other countries where similar is not available, or only at high cost. The variety of genuinely caring and charitable work carried out by the many deeply committed Christians I know is awesome, astounding, and humbling. All of this done is without condemnation of other Christians or of the non-Christians that may be the beneficiaries of the help. Amazing how rich life is when you don't look down on, or condemn, other people!!!! I'll drink to your success in your college studies and a bright future ahead of you. Anybody left in TWI who's reading this: GET A LIFE!! GO DO SOMETHING!!

Oh, and the books are NOT novels. They're real life records. Unfortunately.

First, WELCOME to At A Loss. We feel your pain. Second, I think this important topic should have its own separate thread, not be part of the one started some months ago on a different topic. Maybe Modcat5 or somebody could do that? (even though Rocky has posted on this thread!) Third, At A Loss, much calm is required from your son's side. Be very factual, keep records of events and conversations. The other side are hyper-vigilant exploiters and will emphasis any perceived weakness from your son. Bear in mind the other grandparents genuinely feel that they are doing their best done to raise the child in a good, Godly environment. Histrionics by your son's side will be seen as the devil at work - devil spirit possession - and thus render your son and his family a dangerous environment in which to raise the grandson. Others here have fought similar battles; they may be able to offer some advice or tips.

Interesting, I was somewhere recently and heard about some other thing, and I thought: "Ha, TWI did that!" and they did, a few years after the event that I was talking of. Can't remember details now. (Sorry, that sounds vague - I mean, TWI was copying something else that was already out in public, and passing it off as their own.) As said above: "Once you see the telltale signs of cults, it's inescapable to not recognize it all around........" I'll give VPW this. He was an expert. He was expert at copying what others did, and passing it off as his own. If only he had spent as much time with the Lord as he did in finding and copying other people's ideas ... well, we'd all be in a different place now. It's often said that prisons are universities for criminals, at least some of them, where people can hone their knowledge of their chosen line of crime, make new connections, etc. I'm thinking that TWI and in particular the WC was a university for fraudsters and plagiarists, for those of that bent who wanted to learn the ropes from experts. (Thankfully, most of us were better-intentioned.) Fake university, fake degrees. Perfect!

Get a fake degree at Pike's Peak - give a fake degree, from Indiana. Monkey see, monkey do.

Welcome back, 70s. These days I try to keep things very simple: love God, and love my fellow human beings as best I can. I have friends of various theological stripes; we can AGREE to differ (very unWay-like!). It is good to question what you hear; there's a lot of rubbish in churches, sounds good, doesn't seem to have any Biblical support or (so far as I understand) has a chunk of what might have been Biblical support, missing. Modern songs are rather wacky and there are some I walk out on, "needing to have a toilet stop" or some such. When I first really started to get my mind back, I attended a local Bible school which was once a week for a year; some bits were interesting, some very strange. I discussed some of those ideas with the vicar in my church and he poo-poo'd the ideas too, which gave me confidence. Slowly examining your beliefs is a good thing. I love rummaging around in a selection of Bibles for a decent answer. I'm happy to change my mind if I can see Biblical support for something. Church liturgy and tradition leave me cold though I accept there is a place for ritual, tradition, etc as long as it doesn't take the place of what it represents. It's good to keep checking, too; we all come to it with a set of biases (Wayfers worse than most churchy people) and as we grow and develop our understanding, some of our other beliefs may change too. Do please share if there is anything in particular that you've learned, that might help someone else here.

Hello, Signals. Welcome to the Cafe! Jesus freaks? They talk about Jesus now? (not "Christ"?) Hmm. In the words of the song, Do you (they) know my Jesus? Or are they still preaching "another" Jesus - NOT the one most Christians know? Anyway... new thread to discuss this. It's not about Wrenn.

Thanks for that, Steve. Highly relevant to a conversation I was having with a friend just last night. Missed seeing your posts! Don't be a-dyin' on us. We need your breadth of knowledge and your calm posts! Best wishes for your return to, and continuing, good health.

I recently came across a document, an insert into the graduation "program" leaflet, that explained what all the parts of the WC seal were supposed to represent. If I can locate that again, I'll scan it and post it for you. I imagine, can't recall, that the 5 sided seal is supposed to represent "grace" and of course the words around it represent the "five gift ministries" that were all that TWI seemed to see.

It wasn't an accredited degree at any stage previously, so snowball's chance that it's accredited now. If someone already has an accredited degree, then they get a "bachelor's degree" from TWI. If the candidate doesn't have a degree already, they get an "associate degree" or some such. How does this character say he got his "degree" 2010-2012? It's supposed to be four years with an apprentice year (in the field, raising Corps sponsorship), and a practicum year (running classes) as well as two years in rez. FWIW, we qualified for degrees in Manipulative Studies, with majors in Terror Tactics and other classes in Fear-mongering and in Sexual Abuse.

I'm just saying this again in case anybody missed it. I just wouldn't want to do anything that might lead someone into the clutches of TWI. Nothing that might lead others to danger. Nothing to put a stumbling block in some innocent seeker's way. I might recommend the books that were plagiarised - stuff by Stiles, Bullinger, etc. There is also good modern literature, very readable, by (for example) John Stott that doesn't come with invisible sticky strings attached. A good Christian bookshop should be able to offer advice.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath." "Be kind to one another." "An ounce of kindness always goes a lot further than an ounce of bitterness." No doubt other people here can also supply proverbs about being nice to other people.

Doing jus' fine, thanks, T-Bone. I see you managed to edit your post above... just seen that. And now to bed. It's 1.15am, way after the time those pesky devil spirits come out to hunt. (Or was that, when some of the Way head honchos come out to hunt?) Anyhow, the only peskies here are my two foolish cats. (See their photo at side.)

Were you going to say something, T-Bone?