Twinky

Hey, that should give the R&R group some credibility!

They should all stay where they are. Keep out of the way of normal people! I know! Let's capture them all and build a wall, a great wall, all round the NK property!

More and more of the same twaddle, mudslinging, and refusal to look at what's really going on. Sad.

Oh, is that the 7-page letter? Not a physical confrontation? (still have to read the letter... if I can bear doing so)

Errrr... what was this, anybody know anything? The BoD was confronted?? By whom? Outcomes? Quoted words followed by: "The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant." This sounds not unlike Skyrider's account of Corps couples lining up to be fired!

Wow, has TWI decided to USE the internet for something, rather than decry its inherent wickedness? Tough on the Moynihans, but hey, they dished it enough. Hoist (hoised) with their own petard, maybe? [means, "blown up with their own bomb," for those who love figures of speech]. "Unbiblical behavior"- spit, whatever could that be, JY the puppet-king?

Likewise, BlueCord. Took me years to pluck up the courage to get a mortgage. And I lost my job (market crash :( yuck) a few months after my house purchase! Now, ten years on, the mortgage is down by nearly £80K and I have only about £28K to go. I could not rent anything near what I own, for the amount. Actually to rent my house would cost about twice what I pay in mortgage. I don't tithe, but I do give to support my church and a couple of worthwhile charities whose work I respect. One is a Christian organization, one is not. I am thankful for what is available to me FREE (or nearly so) in my country and would like to help those in other countries where similar is not available, or only at high cost. The variety of genuinely caring and charitable work carried out by the many deeply committed Christians I know is awesome, astounding, and humbling. All of this done is without condemnation of other Christians or of the non-Christians that may be the beneficiaries of the help. Amazing how rich life is when you don't look down on, or condemn, other people!!!! I'll drink to your success in your college studies and a bright future ahead of you. Anybody left in TWI who's reading this: GET A LIFE!! GO DO SOMETHING!!

Oh, and the books are NOT novels. They're real life records. Unfortunately.

First, WELCOME to At A Loss. We feel your pain. Second, I think this important topic should have its own separate thread, not be part of the one started some months ago on a different topic. Maybe Modcat5 or somebody could do that? (even though Rocky has posted on this thread!) Third, At A Loss, much calm is required from your son's side. Be very factual, keep records of events and conversations. The other side are hyper-vigilant exploiters and will emphasis any perceived weakness from your son. Bear in mind the other grandparents genuinely feel that they are doing their best done to raise the child in a good, Godly environment. Histrionics by your son's side will be seen as the devil at work - devil spirit possession - and thus render your son and his family a dangerous environment in which to raise the grandson. Others here have fought similar battles; they may be able to offer some advice or tips.

Interesting, I was somewhere recently and heard about some other thing, and I thought: "Ha, TWI did that!" and they did, a few years after the event that I was talking of. Can't remember details now. (Sorry, that sounds vague - I mean, TWI was copying something else that was already out in public, and passing it off as their own.) As said above: "Once you see the telltale signs of cults, it's inescapable to not recognize it all around........" I'll give VPW this. He was an expert. He was expert at copying what others did, and passing it off as his own. If only he had spent as much time with the Lord as he did in finding and copying other people's ideas ... well, we'd all be in a different place now. It's often said that prisons are universities for criminals, at least some of them, where people can hone their knowledge of their chosen line of crime, make new connections, etc. I'm thinking that TWI and in particular the WC was a university for fraudsters and plagiarists, for those of that bent who wanted to learn the ropes from experts. (Thankfully, most of us were better-intentioned.) Fake university, fake degrees. Perfect!

Get a fake degree at Pike's Peak - give a fake degree, from Indiana. Monkey see, monkey do.

Welcome back, 70s. These days I try to keep things very simple: love God, and love my fellow human beings as best I can. I have friends of various theological stripes; we can AGREE to differ (very unWay-like!). It is good to question what you hear; there's a lot of rubbish in churches, sounds good, doesn't seem to have any Biblical support or (so far as I understand) has a chunk of what might have been Biblical support, missing. Modern songs are rather wacky and there are some I walk out on, "needing to have a toilet stop" or some such. When I first really started to get my mind back, I attended a local Bible school which was once a week for a year; some bits were interesting, some very strange. I discussed some of those ideas with the vicar in my church and he poo-poo'd the ideas too, which gave me confidence. Slowly examining your beliefs is a good thing. I love rummaging around in a selection of Bibles for a decent answer. I'm happy to change my mind if I can see Biblical support for something. Church liturgy and tradition leave me cold though I accept there is a place for ritual, tradition, etc as long as it doesn't take the place of what it represents. It's good to keep checking, too; we all come to it with a set of biases (Wayfers worse than most churchy people) and as we grow and develop our understanding, some of our other beliefs may change too. Do please share if there is anything in particular that you've learned, that might help someone else here.

Hello, Signals. Welcome to the Cafe! Jesus freaks? They talk about Jesus now? (not "Christ"?) Hmm. In the words of the song, Do you (they) know my Jesus? Or are they still preaching "another" Jesus - NOT the one most Christians know? Anyway... new thread to discuss this. It's not about Wrenn.

Thanks for that, Steve. Highly relevant to a conversation I was having with a friend just last night. Missed seeing your posts! Don't be a-dyin' on us. We need your breadth of knowledge and your calm posts! Best wishes for your return to, and continuing, good health.

I recently came across a document, an insert into the graduation "program" leaflet, that explained what all the parts of the WC seal were supposed to represent. If I can locate that again, I'll scan it and post it for you. I imagine, can't recall, that the 5 sided seal is supposed to represent "grace" and of course the words around it represent the "five gift ministries" that were all that TWI seemed to see.

It wasn't an accredited degree at any stage previously, so snowball's chance that it's accredited now. If someone already has an accredited degree, then they get a "bachelor's degree" from TWI. If the candidate doesn't have a degree already, they get an "associate degree" or some such. How does this character say he got his "degree" 2010-2012? It's supposed to be four years with an apprentice year (in the field, raising Corps sponsorship), and a practicum year (running classes) as well as two years in rez. FWIW, we qualified for degrees in Manipulative Studies, with majors in Terror Tactics and other classes in Fear-mongering and in Sexual Abuse.

I'm just saying this again in case anybody missed it. I just wouldn't want to do anything that might lead someone into the clutches of TWI. Nothing that might lead others to danger. Nothing to put a stumbling block in some innocent seeker's way. I might recommend the books that were plagiarised - stuff by Stiles, Bullinger, etc. There is also good modern literature, very readable, by (for example) John Stott that doesn't come with invisible sticky strings attached. A good Christian bookshop should be able to offer advice.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath." "Be kind to one another." "An ounce of kindness always goes a lot further than an ounce of bitterness." No doubt other people here can also supply proverbs about being nice to other people.

Doing jus' fine, thanks, T-Bone. I see you managed to edit your post above... just seen that. And now to bed. It's 1.15am, way after the time those pesky devil spirits come out to hunt. (Or was that, when some of the Way head honchos come out to hunt?) Anyhow, the only peskies here are my two foolish cats. (See their photo at side.)

Were you going to say something, T-Bone?

Thomas, he doesn't say he's a preacher of any kind, just that he has a BA in Theology. (Well, so do I... issued by TWI. I also have real degrees, in very difficult subjects, from properly accredited organisations.)

I would love to hear Timlee's accounts of just some of the times he has confronted Way leadership. Details of who, what was said, when, and what was the cause of the confrontation. There must be much to learn, in his accounts.

Interesting article, Rocky. ...Be wise [cautious] as a serpent...

Nauseating, sure is. More violent than TWI but still the emotional scarring for the victims. The strange thing about this cult is that it was started by a woman. Hey, you guys, it's fine to have freedom of religion. But freedom to abuse? Abuse individuals by these wicked acts? Abuse the Lord by taking his name in vain, using it as a disguise for the works of the devil? There's a lot to be said for more organised, mainstream religious entities. Not saying the mainstream churches are without fault (noted the abuse by the RC church over decades) but at least there are some checks on more obviously egregious behavior.

Jim Jack, if you want to know about awesome teachers and people who do awesome things, I'd love you to come with me to either of the two churches I regularly attend, spend time with the ministers there and with the congregations, and come out with us on some of our many and varied genuine outreach and assistance events. You will find many who walk the talk, and talk the walk. There are many people who are worthy of national and international respect, genuine scholarship, genuine very high level appointments (one is chaplain to the Queen), one is a peer of the realm (a genuine aristocrat) - and all are so humble, quiet, gentle, and inclusive. There are no TV evangelists, but from time to time the BBC broadcasts the Easter or a Christmas service from Bath abbey (where the Queen's chaplain has his "regular job" as the Rector of the abbey) and the rector is the nicest man who really points the way to Jesus and honours God. You want what he's got, not because he "sells" it in loud manner, but because of his quietness, peacefulness and confidence in the Lord. The peer has set up many programs to assist homeless and vulnerable people and is a real "mover and shaker" to get things done that bring Christ to the overlooked, and to build Christian unity among believers. Yet he's so self-effacing that he is easy to overlook. I know of several who have given land or large amounts of money for community projects (it's taken me a long time to find this out because they don't shout about it). I know people who have very little in financial terms, but spend their time and energy tirelessly doing things that benefit their community, because of their love for Christ and their desire to show that love. In fact, I could write a very long list of awesome but very humble people that I meet through these churches and the other very active churches, of all denominations, throughout this city. Jim Jack, I can arrange meetings for you with some mightily awesome Christian folks, who from genuine Christian love seek the wellbeing of their community in a huge variety of ways. I can't promise splashy miracles. I can promise genuine heart and genuine and observable turn-round in a myriad of ways, in people's lives. Please let me know when you would like to come with me.