Twinky

T-Bone, you crack me up!!!

No , please don't, Grace. Don't f-him.

And the epistle is MUCH milder than the oral teaching, esp at Corps Nights.

I remember a Rock of Ages early 90s, where there was a parade of folks bearing posters with messages like "Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve" and other anti-homosexual messages. There were - oh, a dozen or so - different messages. I'd forgotten, but I reviewed a caseful of old photos and there were some from that Rock, that parade. And anti homosexual? Heck, you only had to hear Craig ranting on and on ... and on ... and on ... My first year in rez, i thought he was never going to let up about this subject. I know that's not teaching kids, but it is teaching their parents, and it is teaching potential twig coordinators who are going to go out and "oversee" twig members who themselves will have children in their orbits - their own children, their nephews, nieces, kids at school, etc. I don't think the "trans" community came into it (much) - maybe a passing reference but nothing compared to the full-on histrionics against homosexuals. Ironic, really. When his wife lived with the Vice Prez of the ministry.

I am pleased to say that a few years ago, I managed to dissuade a young man from going to join this group. Don't think he particularly believed me about the "parent program." Thought Sowers would be all nicey-nicey. But it lodged the concerns in his mind. I prayed about it too and have a recollection that he couldn't get a visa, or some such. And th young man got a job in a small nearby town and moved away to there.

What would probably happen is that the whole business would be papered over. The generals who withdrew would be made scapegoats, perhaps, for withdrawing. And in today's times, leaders who do naughty things end up being excused. A President has molested interns, got impeached and then let off, for example. Not sacked as Prez. Another caused the death of thousands of young men in foreign countries, left those countries a worse mess, and suffered - what consequences? Vietnam is back on its feet; dead soldiers aren't. African Prezes have committed genocidal campaigns and still "got away with it." If enough people are murdered, it ceases to matter. Murder 6 million or more people of many backgrounds (including people from your own country), because of sexual orientation, nomadic habits, beliefs, etc, and a few perpetrators will suffer penalties, some of those penalties being laughably small in relation to their crimes. Others equally complicit suffered no consequences (but then, they weren't kings or Prezes or anybody that "mattered"). That's what the Nuremburg Trials were about. A semblance of justice and fairness. And, at this present time, a President is ordering the killing members of his own community for apparent offences, but doesn't bother with the rigour of a trial. Some of the killings include government officials. Not for any "good" reason. Not only is this Prez immune from punishment, he gains increasingly high approval ratings. Duterte in the Philippines, anyone? And the Philippines are supposedly a great R Catholic country! (I can't think of any modern kings who've committed heinous crimes like murder, hence the references to presidents.) Sooooo..... what would Christendom do with a man like David? Slapped wrist? Maybe even give him more power? Like Duterte!

Hey, I attempted a serious answer. But you lot - well, go play with your paintballs. I guess I'll wash the dishes. More productive.

Actually, Raf, the question was this: The question: what would present day Christendom do to a man like David? which is not a question about God, but about Christian responses.

Take your pick. Coveting his neighbour's wife. Adultery. Murder. Lying. Deception (or attempted deception, in trying to pass off his babe in the womb as Uriah's). Conspiracy to murder (with the other generals whom he ordered to withdraw, leaving Uriah exposed). A good many of these are "worthy of death" offences. And the penalty was borne by the innocent babe in the womb. Are there allegories here? We also commit "worthy of death" offences (maybe not murder) and our sins (David's sins, too!) are paid for by the death of the innocent Jesus? Is God's not requiring the death penalty his showing mercy to David, and giving a foretaste of the mercy we can all enjoy? Is God a respecter of persons, that David should be forgiven when confronted? Do we not all receive grace and mercy if, when confronted, we 'fess up? Note the worthy of death penalty - there isn't an instruction to kill such offenders. Indeed, God provided cities of refuge for murderers, a place to be exiled to where it would in fact be an offence if they were murderers. God delights in repentance, not in the death of people ("baddies" or otherwise). Moses too was a cold-blooded murderer. Well, okay ... a hot-blooded murderer. He served time in exile. As to the religious zealot and murderer Saul mentioned earlier - he went on to do great things, and it is thanks to him that we know the Good News now. He was forgiven by those whom he set out to murder - indeed, after initial fears by the believing community (new Christians), he was welcomed with open arms by them. Perhaps we should take our example from them. US justice is much more barbaric than British justice. In the US, the death penalty might be sought. In the UK, he would be sentenced (mandatory sentence) to life imprisonment. However, life prisoners are generally released on licence (paroled) after a number of years if (and only if) they are considered no longer a risk to society. There would be a minimum time (the "tariff") set for actual imprisonment, depending on circumstances surrounding the event, before he was eligible to apply for parole. Good behaviour (repentance) would get him out on parole earlier after the tariff was served. At any time after release, and for no particular reason, he could be recalled to prison. Is that right, fair? Better than being executed. I think I'd go along with that as an outcome for David, then be ready to welcome him back (cautiously!) into society. Still has many skills that he could use for the betterment of society (as, in fact, David did do after being confronted). If I were a man (which I'm not), I think I'd want to keep him away from my wife!

I just looked at the whole thread. Now I'm sure it belongs in GSC Humor. Have fun, guys.

I noticed a new post on this thread and have read only this page (so far) and am wondering if it belongs in the GC Humor forum ?

To start with, "all nine all the time" is such nonsense. "All the time"? Someone's working miracles "all the time"? Healing people "all the time"? If one is alone, who is being healed or having a miracle performed for their benefit? Is the person who is alone in such constant prayer that every second they are healing someone at some remote location? (Or rather, praying for someone to be healed?) Not even Jesus was healing people or working miracles "all the time"! For myself, I prefer to live a life that's quietly in line with what God wants, not "talking to" anyone but constantly trying to line up my heart and my thinking up with what I know and understand from the Bible. But when I get in conversation, it is amazing how many times someone will say something and my response is nothing planned but the other person says, "That's just what I needed to hear!"or "That's so helpful!" and I perceive these to be words of wisdom that God has given me to speak to that person at that moment. It may also be that God is working in the heart of the other person to be able to receive such words. (I say it, he hears it; God energises both.) Perhaps that's how it works for all the evidence (manifestation) of the gift that is within us. Jesus was pleaded with for help, healing; in his compassion he prayed for it and there was a healing, a miracle. Blood flows ceased, the dead were raised, crowds fed. Passion = strong feeling or emotion. Com = with. Compassion = strong feeling or emotion, shared with someone else, individual or group.

You're wrong on that, Grace. There are still too many who are still in thrall to TWI and are slaving away at HQ and other locations. We can only pray that one day they will come to their senses and see the servitude for what it is.

That's pretty awesome, Rocky. I call to mind that all non-Way material was banned for 3 months after taking one's initial PFAL class. And then discouraged thereafter. On entering the WC training, all non-Way material was banned - permanently. I know a bunch of ex Plymouth Brethren in my local area. The women hated it and are glad to have escaped. The men can't understand why the women couldn't have a voice, too (if women had a thought about something, they had to tell their husbands, who spoke for them). Matter of fact, about 40 years ago, in a different area, I used to work with a woman, who would take her packed lunch to the nearby park and eat there. On a couple of occasions, I went to talk to her and she would stop eating. Very strict PB. Sad. Very quiet woman and never spoke up. Now, I realise why. There are a number of faith schools opening up in this country. Faith might be Christian faith, or it might be Islamic, or any other faith. They can set their own curricula within guidelines. Fine - but do encourage children's critical thinking. It should be possible to examine good literature and draw from it. For example, Shakespeare's plays endure because they continue to deal with enduring human problems - jealousy, lust, ambition. Some of those themes could be considered in light of what could be done to overcome, say. jealousy. Like, learn to communicate better. The more open communication we have amongst ourselves, the better, in my opinion.

Years ago, I got mixed up casually in an offshoot local to where I now live. Some big meeting took place "Rev" Robert Lightfoot came over. He spouted off about something which was incorrect. It included a point of grammar, but I mentioned it kindly to him because, well, I didn't want him to look more ridiculous than he already did. Instead he pontificated at me for a good half-hour, spouting his version of "the Word", not seeking any response from me, just in my face, ignoring my increasingly obvious signs of not wanting to continue the conversation, and not letting me get a word in edgeways. I let him run with it for a little while, to see when he might run out of steam. He didn't. In the end, I just turned round and walked away. It was all "head knowledge" and no personal "relationship knowledge." The Bible says this, the epistle of xx says that, PFAL says... Not, did it meet any part of my need or have anything to do with my (the hearer's) life. Not even how this extensive head knowledge had affected his own life, or about signs, miracles and wonders that he had seen or been a part of. He probably thought I was some copped-out Corpswoman who needed lecturing and who needed to get back into line. That showing off and boasting of head knowledge is so NOT the way to witness. Did you know that "wit" is an old word for knowledge? A witness is one who has actual knowledge. wit (v.) "to know" (archaic), Old English witan (past tense wast, past participle witen) "to know, beware of or conscious of, understand, observe, ascertain, learn," from Proto-Germanic *witan "to have seen," hence "to know" (source also of Old Saxon witan, Old Norse vita, Old Frisian wita, Middle Dutch, Dutch weten, Old High German wizzan, German wissen, Gothic witan "to know"), from PIE root *weid- "to see." The phrase "to wit," almost the only surviving use of the verb, is first recorded 1570s, from earlier "that is to wit" (mid-14c.), probably a loan-translation of Anglo-French cestasavoir, used to render Latin videlicet (see viz.). [Online Etymology Dictionary] Witness = tell what you know. In your heart. Our witnessing trips should have been our opportunity to show how Jesus works in our lives. How God so loves the world. How precious people are, in God's sight. Instead, witnessing was an opportunity to show off, or to try to get one over the "witnessee," to try to show where they were mistaken/wrong. Not to show them how loved they were. No wonder we all hated witnessing session!

It's a good book, scary, sticks in the mind. I'm going to see if I can't borrow it from the local library (yeah right, I have time to read books - not!) though at the present time there's probably a waiting list. Give it a go. You might be able to pick up the TV series on some kind of CatchUp TV or other online service. HULU is involved in its production and streams it in the US. https://www.hulu.com/the-handmaids-tale

So, Grace, have you read the book, or seen the current film series? That's what this thread is about. Waybashing is on the other thread. Thanks.

What's that old saying? "Preach the gospel to everyone. If necessary, use words." Let our actions speak for the love that God bestows on his people. That is what opens doors, to give a full message.

Took up choral singing about 4 or 5 years ago. Something I always wanted to do, never had the opportunity before. A friend sang in a choir, invited me first to their performance, then to choir night. My first choir practice was terribly difficult. I don't read music and the piece that was mostly being practised that night was very very complex. In Latin too, probably (which also I don't know). Choirmaster provides those who want with a CD with their part highlighted - played by his wife on an oboe - so we can learn our own part. George, the choirmaster is Director of Music at a nearby excellent school and part of his remit is to encourage music into the community. He has also set up a couple of choirs at the school - The Choir Who Don't Sing - boys; and the The Choir Who Won't Sing - girls, who were reluctant until "outed" by their friends who said they sang along to pop songs. George takes the view that everyone can produce music and sing, and if the person makes a mistake, it's his, George's, fault because he hasn't taught them correctly. He's magic at tuning the choir and breaking down even the most complex pieces. Since then I've been invited to join two other casual choirs, inc this weekend's one, and I sing in the worship group at church. The latter is very exposed, very small group with just piano and bass guitar, singers are a bassist and maybe one or two other female singers. People both in the choir and many at church have told me I have a very nice voice. I lost my voice a while back and someone prayed passionately with me (all the passion of a Wayfer, unusual in a church!!) for the return of my voice, my holy instrument. The expression has stuck with me and I try to make sure when I am singing that my voice is worthy of being called a holy instrument. Grace, George could teach even Donald Duck to sing - If DD wanted to, that is! Get out there and give it a go. This is the piece we are singing tomorrow afternoon, with our own live orchestra. It's magnificent. Note, I'm in the choir, not one of the soloists!!!!

I just watched something on Catch-up TV. It seemed more interesting than doing the mountain of washing up that needs attention. I might tackle that in a minute or two. What I really ought to be doing is going to bed, seeing as it's coming up to 1am and I have to be up early for a full day's singing rehearsal tomorrow - well - today.

Hello, MaddyWolf. Never a Wayfer - lucky lass, you. Just watched episode 6 (the Mexicans' visit). Yes, interesting delve into past lives of the main characters. I read the book decades ago and parts of it have "stuck" with me ever since. I heard the author speaking on the radio recently about the film adaptation. (She's a consultant or director or something on this latest version.) Her thinking is interesting. One of the things she said was that all the scenarios and incidents of women-abuse noted in the film have all happened, somewhere, at some time in the not too distant past. It's well acted as a movie. Chilling, but quite believable, in its way. Perhaps, even, not quite chilling enough?

rrobs: Of course I take your post personally: you kept addressing me as "you". That's personal. I probably know more about what goes on in this forum than you do (as I've been around just a little longer). Just because I don't go around quoting chapter and verse doesn't mean that what I say doesn't fit here. Heck, I might even have internalized some verses, "made them my own" (Wayferism) and come out with my own words (not parroting). But welcome. All are welcome here. Sometimes we talk about things in a roundabout way. Have a coffee and unwind a little.

Don't go there, WW...

Wow. All that great long post. And no Wayisms, either.

So this refers back to your original post. Which I had the courtesy to attempt an answer before, which you didn't seem to respond kindly to. Yes. Get the doctrine straight. That includes knowing all of the Bible, all the parts which for convenience only are referred to as OT, Gospels, and NT. Do not cherry pick verses. Do not twist them to make them read as you'd prefer them to. Do not ignore verses that you don't like. "Do" what you know to do: and understanding of the bigger picture will continue to grow. Personally, I don't "look at what God has already made [me]" I look at Him, and who (I perceive) He is. I look at Jesus, and who (I perceive) he is. I accept that I am deeply loved, chosen, and cared for. Because I am loved and cared for, I cannot but respond by being loving and caring back towards He who cares for me. I see that I am to be loving and kind towards others: so I am, as best I can be. I look at fellow Christians, to see how they devote their lives to service of the Lord. I can learn from them, too. If I spent my time looking at me, I'd be so aware of my flaws that I'd fail to do anything. Yet I know that others look at me, to see how I serve. So I try to present a good model for them, too. And acknowledge when I stuff up.